WAN-facing web server inaccessible from LAN - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.0&return_msg=42846.4"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.21">21–24</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42846.4">WAN-facing web server inaccessible from LAN</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42846_4_24_10"> <a name="a42846_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">31 Jan 2022 21:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">4 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4">42846.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> New ISPs modem-router DHCP server seems flaky, shows random devices as connected/disconnected (when I know they're connected). This reared its head when my boss lost printing and I could not discover the printer on the network anymore.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.4&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">31 Jan 2022 22:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 11:19"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.5">42846.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.3">42846.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I meant during development and testing. Relieved to hear you don't have truck with such nonsense.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.5&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 1 Feb 2022 14:42</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 11:19"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.6">42846.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_4" target="_self">42846.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Have you fixed it yet? <br /> <br /> Oh yeah, meant to ask, from outside your LAN, can you see the web server <em>both</em> by public/WAN IP address and domain name?<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 1 Feb 2022 14:52 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.6&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 13:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 13:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.7">42846.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_6" target="_self">42846.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> LAN access to web server not fixed, I can hit it from outside by domain and ip.<br /> <br /> I learned that the ISP has blocked port 22 so I changed the NAT to 30 outside --> 22 in and can now ssh in from outside (haven't figured out if/how that works with sftp yet).<br /> <br /> I also learned the printer had the old 192.168.0.x ip hard-coded in. Fortunately our old ISP is still connected, so I was able to hook the printer and a pc up to that and webmin in to turn dhcp on, also applied latest firmware (ca. 2015) to it, to restore LAN printing.<br /> <br /> Will be back in the office Friday for more fun.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.7&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 13:29</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 13:45"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.8">42846.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_7" target="_self">42846.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, I know there are a few ISPs who do that, although I'd have thought it was a bit odd with a business customer. <br /> <br /> Not being able to see your server from the LAN is a bit of a puzzle. If you can see it from outside the LAN with the IP address, then I can't really understand why you can't see it from the LAN. I mean, your query heads off to the ISP and after that you should, in theory, be in the same position as somebody on the outside.<br /> <br /> What does traceroute show?<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 2 Feb 2022 13:31 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.8&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 13:51</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 14:37"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.9">42846.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_8" target="_self">42846.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah it's kind of weird. I suspect that Bell's 'small business' offering is identical to their residential service, but more expensive? Anyhoo I'm wondering if (based on the ssh thing) maybe they've reserved ports 80 and 443 for LAN access to the modem webmin*, and forgot to tell anybody (like they did with ssh). Documentation isn't their strong suit as it's all geared to non-techincal people doing non-technical things, no depth to it whatever. There are a few independent forums (e.g. reddit, dslreports) with a lot of stuff about these kinds of issues, slogging through them now.<br /> <br /> *Edit: just remembered I can hit another web server (this one on an ancient powermac) on our LAN by IP.<br /> <span class="emoticon e_pyfitg" title="(pyfitg)"><span class="e__">(pyfitg)</span></span><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 2 Feb 2022 14:12 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.9&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 14:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 14:37"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.10">42846.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_8" target="_self">42846.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Not used traceroute, I suppose it's one more thing I'll have to learn <span class="emoticon e_angry" title=":-@"><span class="e__">:-@</span></span><br /> <br /> There's the raw output. I tried default (30-hops) and -m 60 but it dies at 15 in both cases. (this also has the -I flag):<br /> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Code:</strong> </div> <pre class="code"> [08:57 dave dave-fc32~]traceroute -I -m 60 xxxxxxxx.com traceroute to xxxxxxx.com (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx), 60 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 _gateway (192.168.1.1) 0.695 ms 0.705 ms 0.852 ms 2 dsl-173-206-32-1.tor.primus.ca (173.206.32.1) 13.157 ms 15.164 ms 17.275 ms 3 10.201.117.14 (10.201.117.14) 19.925 ms 20.349 ms 22.580 ms 4 10.201.117.73 (10.201.117.73) 24.113 ms 26.371 ms 27.482 ms 5 10.201.121.49 (10.201.121.49) 29.515 ms 33.615 ms 34.703 ms 6 64.125.60.212 (64.125.60.212) 36.427 ms 36.433 ms 38.614 ms 7 * * ae4.mpr1.yyz1.ca.zip.zayo.com (64.125.23.123) 14.315 ms 8 * * * 9 * * * 10 bx10-newyork83_ae10.net.bell.ca (184.150.181.80) 35.782 ms 37.475 ms 38.262 ms 11 tcore4-newyorkaa_bundle-ether8.net.bell.ca (64.230.79.210) 59.575 ms 59.834 ms 59.827 ms 12 tcore3-montreal02_hundredgige1-12-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.79.149) 60.862 ms 52.664 ms 52.725 ms 13 tcore3-toronto21_1-6-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.79.30) 58.291 ms 45.906 ms 44.223 ms 14 tcore4-toronto01_0-1-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.50.234) 45.356 ms 39.585 ms 48.195 ms 15 lns1-toronto01_xe-7\0472\0470_ae1.net.bell.ca (64.230.102.35) 40.066 ms 40.258 ms 35.764 ms</pre> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 3 Feb 2022 14:20 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.10&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 14:38</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">11 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.11">42846.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Here's some kind of explanation: <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">to my best of knowledge, the HH2000 doesn't support nat loopback (this is what you need to access your local server using the wan IP address. there's no way around this. you could have your home dhcp and dns server on your network... and override your domain IP address on your local network to point it to the local lan IP address.</div> More detail:<br /> <br /> <a href="https://serverfault.com/questions/55611/loopback-to-forwarded-public-ip-address-from-local-network-hairpin-nat">https://serverfault.com/questions/55611/loopback-to-forwarded-public-ip-address-from-local-network-hairpin-nat</a></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.11&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 15:45</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 15:54"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.12">42846.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_10" target="_self">42846.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Doesn't look like the trace will help. You're getting Bell servers that won't respond to trace requests so it just times out. I can see your site and my tracert timed out too. Shame really because it's useful sometimes.<br /> <br /> Interesting thing though, I plead ignorance seeing as it's at least 10 years since I played with any network stuff in anything remotely like a professional way. I had a quick squint at my owncloud server which is open to the internet. Turns out that the traceroute for that is totally different from my LAN to when I look at it from outside. From the LAN it goes to the router and from there straight back to the server, ie just two hops. Presumably the router is smart enough not to send a local request outside. But my router is a single (external) IP device for domestic use. Is the router you've been provided with handling a batch of external IP addresses? If so, does it make a difference whether you are on the same LAN as the web/file server, or whatever?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.12&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42846_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_42846_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 2 Feb 2022 15:55</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Feb 2022 15:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.13">42846.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42846.4#a42846_12" target="_self">42846.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Aah, didn't see that last message until after mine.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42846.13&return_msg=42846.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42846.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42846.14" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>