VR - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.0&return_msg=42839.31"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31">31–37</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42839.31">VR</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42839_31_37_10"> <a name="a42839_31"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_31"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">31 Oct 16:14</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Nov 11:21"></span></span> <span class="message_count">31 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31">42839.31</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.30">42839.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yes, it is interesting and makes some good points. Not sure I agree with everything he says. Some (many) of his arguments are actually assertions: his POV stated as fact. Some of the assertions are plain odd, and I don't know what to make of them e.g. <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">because everything in VR has to be rendered twice, once for each eye, those things will always look worse than they would in non-VR</div> Does rendering something twice reduce the resolution or spoil the colour balance, or something? I don't think so. And what does he mean by looking "worse"? To who? In what way? Maybe he means something like a given amount of processing will produce a single image of x quality or two images of x - n quality. But he doesn't say this. In fact, what evidence I've seen suggests that when depth is added to imagery via VR, perception of detail increases.<br /> <br /> I don't want to focus on this one point, but I think it's his over-assertiveness that harms the piece. He doesn't write "those things can look worse" he writes "those things <em><strong>will always</strong></em> look worse". He does this throughout.<br /> <br /> But on the other hand, I think several of his main points are probably right. There's a lot of good-enoughness about, when what's on offer plainly isn't. Facebook/Meta gave VR a huge boost with the Quest 2, a VR headset, up with the very best, but at a medium games console price. But, to a degree they don't seem to have realised what they did. They're back to moderate incremental improvements in hardware, when another leap is needed. They've got the jitters over cash I suppose. And game design and technology must change. So much is just tweaked-up standard 3D video gaming.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.31&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.31"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_32"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_32"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 Nov 10:14</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Nov 13:38"></span></span> <span class="message_count">32 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.32">42839.32</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_31" target="_self">42839.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I *think* his point there is that, with GPU power being finite, if you're rendering it twice then it's going to be "half" the quality.<br /> <br /> i.e. you could, on a 2d screen, have a twice-as-good-looking-game.<br /> <br /> Which there's *something* to, but not much.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.32&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.32"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_33"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_33"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 4 Nov 11:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Nov 13:38"></span></span> <span class="message_count">33 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.33">42839.33</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_31" target="_self">42839.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> My own feeling is *never having put a vr headset on* the cost-benefit ratio is way off, such that it will never reach market scale but will always be a luxury curio. Then there's the headset issue itself, another showstopper (IMO). Xenophon makes a good point about the eye watering, display-spanning resolutions which require a meaty, and pricey gpu to do justice. Anyway, it's all above my pay grade. I like playing games on an ordinary 2d display on an ordinary pc that's not tethered to my head* well enough. In fairness, one could level similar complaints to almost any amusement you could name. It could be sour grapes, but I'm not really tempted in the first place that I even want to test out the experience.<br /> <br /> *um headphones though<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 4 Nov 11:39 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.33&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.33"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_34"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_34"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 5 Nov 21:08</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 Nov 11:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">34 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.34">42839.34</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_32" target="_self">42839.32</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yes, I thought that was the kind of thing he probably meant, but he phrased it in an odd way. I suspected that he phrased it in an odd way to lend some dubious certainty to his case. Which is a shame, because it doesn't need it.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.34&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.34"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_35"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_35"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 5 Nov 23:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Nov 10:05"></span></span> <span class="message_count">35 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.35">42839.35</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_33" target="_self">42839.33</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Well.......the last time I checked, Nvidia are banging out a card for common-or-garden 3D video gaming on a 2D monitor that a gamer could buy, or, alternatively invest in eight complete Quest 3 sets. Nvidia may go broke one day, but not right now. I mean, you're not wrong. The cost benefit thing. But it's an analysis that doesn't help me understand. Some smokers spend 50p on a little plastic lighter when others think a £1000 Cartier thing is essential. A Quest 3 costs about the same as many an average gamer will blow on just the graphics card. SO what I'm stumbling around with, is that pointing to the cost is like this: I choose a packet of chocolate digestives at £1.50 but somebody suggests I should try Bonne Maman Milk Chocolate Caramel Tartlets at £2.00*. I've been eating chocolate digestives for years and although the new sweet and crunchy treat is quite pleasant, and exotically European, I state that I enjoy what I have and the cost benefit analysis is way off. Actually, that argument is way off, never mind the cost benefit. It's an argument that only makes sense when the cost is a "cost". My REAL point is that cost, on it's own, isn't necessarily the main issue in the failure of VR to wipe 2D/3D gaming from the world.<br /> <br /> Wearing upwards of 1lb on your head while gaming is a downer, especially when it will run out of puff in less than 2 hours.<br /> <br /> Few VR games are truly great games. Many are cobbled together on old 3D engines like Unreal.<br /> <br /> Spend £400 and you have access to about 20 truly great games. VR. (If you have watched many VR scifi films you may find some of these disappointing).<br /> <br /> Spend £400 and you have access to about 20 million squilllion games including some that have changed both actual and gaming history. 3D (NB at £400 you may find some of these disappointing).<br /> <br /> There are games that are so good they could be played on an Amstrad smart watch and still be jaw-dropping. 3D or VR<br /> <br /> For me, there's something about some moments in VR gaming that are so good that --- fuck! But then again, I spent HOURS guiding a tiny Mario in his grossly pixelated submarine to finally overcome a crudely drawn octopus. And I was a grown man. And the game was sublime.<br /> <br /> What I want to say is that there's something wonderful about VR gaming and it would be a shame if it's overlooked becaused it isn't what people think it should be. And that isn't (all) to do with cost. Incidentally, I think it's impossible that elements of VR won't appear in most future games at some stage.<br /> <br /> *some perfectly competent chip shop analogies were overlooked to the detriment of all in this post.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.35&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.35"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_36"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_36"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 6 Nov 10:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Nov 10:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">36 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.36">42839.36</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_35" target="_self">42839.35</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Right, I confess that I am woefully uninformed about VR gaming to be mouthing off about it. But it clearly hasn't taken off, and nothing I've seen or read has made me even curious, my own reasons are probably not much of a factor in the overall scheme.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.36&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.36"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42839_37"></a><div class="message" id="message_42839_37"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 Nov 18:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 Nov 21:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">37 of 37</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.37">42839.37</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42839.31#a42839_36" target="_self">42839.36</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I still use mine extensively for playing sims, they're just so very much better in VR, to the extent that I won't buy one if it doesn't have the option. Flying and driving stuff on PCVR.<br /> I don't really bother so much with the standalone games, I keep meaning to give them more of a go but ...hm, I don't play other games much anyway, so it's not really VR thats stopping me.<br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42839.37&return_msg=42839.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42839.37"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </body>