Topaz AI stuff - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.0&return_msg=42684.1"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.21">21–22</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42684.1">Topaz AI stuff</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42684_1_22_10"> <a name="a42684_1"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_1"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 2 Oct 2020 14:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">1 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1">42684.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Probably just me, but anybody else playing with video enhancement? Got me a trial of this <em>Topaz video enhance AI</em> thing. Supposedly it isn't just a bit of sharpening filter, a touch of colour saturation adjustment, and some upscaling/remuxing. Supposedly it's the result of AI algorithms trained on thousands of hours of before and after video images. Tried on some DVD samples from <em>Spaced </em>(another SD only release) and it's definitely better than I could manage with Avidemux. Quite impressive in fact.<br /> <br /> The downsides are (1) after the trial it's quite an expensive product but more than that, (2), it's bloody slow. A whole episode of <em>Spaced</em> on my desktop would have taken > 23 hours to process. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.1&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.1"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_2"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_2"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 2 Oct 2020 20:46</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Oct 2020 07:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">2 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.2">42684.2</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_1" target="_self">42684.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Keep seeing either that or other similar things advertised. More than just a decent upscalling algorithm?<br /> <br /> I'm guessing it hammers your CPU, what spec PC do you have these days? </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.2&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.2"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 3 Oct 2020 09:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Oct 2020 09:28"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.3">42684.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_2" target="_self">42684.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> PC Spec is oldish and then a bit further back. It's an i5 5690K (fairly respectable and not far off an i7 of the same generation) 8GB of DDR3, a GTX1050 (with only 2GB of DDR5), and a fairly decent Crucial SSD as the main drive.<br /> <br /> Topaz is designed to run on an Nvidia GPU. They recommend a GTX 1080 with 8GB as the starting point* which explains my extremely slow speeds. It will run on a CPU but slower still. <br /> <br /> As for what it is, I suppose really it is just a decent upscaling algorithm (or set of algorithms). They wave the "AI" flag, and I guess that means that they can tune the software by showing it variously degraded images at low resolution, followed by the high definition required result, so that it can do something like "best match" when dealing with real footage to decide how to enhance and upscale. The claim is that when the tuning is done with thousands of before and afters it can be very effective.<br /> <br /> It has a bunch of profiles from which you pick one that matches the source video. For SD video, you're supposed to pick LQ (Low Quality). You then select the desired result which goes up to 8K. I've had some quite good results producing short samples. The biggest change came from picking the profile supposedly for CGI and applying it to an SD source, upscaling it to 1080P. Occasionally, it felt as though things were overdone: a "plastic" quality to skin tones and so on. But I have to admit it's a lot better than my attempts applying sharpening, denoise and smoothing filters with Avidemux. <br /> <br /> I've binned my experiments so far, but I'll do a couple of short sections and stick them up here as examples. Might take a while though!<br /> <br /> <br /> *just looked at their help pages and they now say "RTX series or above with 6GB or more". They advise slightly different specs in different places, but you get the idea. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.3&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 3 Oct 2020 09:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Oct 2020 09:33"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.4">42684.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_3" target="_self">42684.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Good that it's designed around GPU tech rather than just pure CPU horsepower. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.4&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Matt<span class="message_time"> 3 Oct 2020 13:37</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Oct 2020 13:38"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.5">42684.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_1" target="_self">42684.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Topaz is impressive, yes.<br /> <br /> Some Internet folk are using it to upscale Star Trek DS9 to HD. The results are pretty dang good too: <a href="https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/314653-remastering-deep-space-nine">https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/314653-remastering-deep-space-nine</a></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.5&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 3 Oct 2020 18:42</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Matt <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Oct 2020 19:33"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.6">42684.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_5" target="_self">42684.5</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yes, I saw that. It looks interesting. One thing that did occur to me is that there are a couple of fellers who spent years, literally, enhancing <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/ap47nr/b5_remaster_reencoded_for_the_love_of_babylon_5/">Babylon 5</a> using more conventional techniques. I wonder how that would look if given the Topaz treatment. I have the current state of play which is good, but far from perfect.<br /> <br /> If anybody's interested, here's a couple of short clips:<br /> <br /> 1) <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/j17v7rlisj2j5e4/spaced_cut_576p.mkv?dl=0">this is the opening of Spaced</a>, episode 1, straight from the DVD. Technically it's 576P, but as it was shot on video tape for CRT televisions, that doesn't mean much.<br /> <br /> 2) <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/sq52r2dw83sosbf/spaced_cut_1080p.mp4?dl=0">this is the same clip</a> fed through Topaz using the "Gaia-CG" profile with a target of MP4 1080P. <br /> <br /> The conversion took >2 hours and it's muted the sound a bit during the remux. If you do take a look, I recommend viewing at full screen as they can look a bit similar in a tiny little windowed player.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 3 Oct 2020 18:47 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.6&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">28 Feb 2021 12:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Feb 2021 12:10"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.7">42684.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_6" target="_self">42684.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Hmm<br /> <br /> Got invited to a second free trial now that they've worked on Topaz for a while. Interested to see that they have some deinterlace and enhance options now. Not especially keen to deinterlace video as it runs fine through a TV, but it can be a pig to run enhance tools on interlaced video without deinterlacing it first. This usually shags the quality thus defeating the object as you're trying to improve a much worse source file. So a program that does it in one hit sounds interesting.<br /> <br /> So I plugged a 1hr 8 min episode of "The Singing Detective" in. 16 hours later - and some minutes - I had a pretty damn fine 1080P video from a none too special 576i source. Sadly the output file was 7 minutes longer than the input and the audio sync was all over the place.<br /> <br /> The only cause of this that Topaz acknowledges is using a variable frame rate input (which this isn't) and so far my attempts to remux and resync the audio are way off.<br /> <br /> Close, but no cigar.<br /> <br /> And no way I'm spending the big bucks they want while it's still, to my mind, an alpha release.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.7&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 2 Mar 2021 07:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Mar 2021 10:18"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.8">42684.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_7" target="_self">42684.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Can't things like ffmpeg do reasonable deinterlacing?<br /> <br /> Yadif x2 seems to be a well regarded filter (as far as my knowledge of these things goes) <br /> The Intel GPUs do some good Motion Adaptive and Motion Compensation filters in hardware. I assume nvidia would have some too, but not sure if they're supported via something like ffmpeg though. <br /> <br /> Reason I know this is that I still watch TV at home via Tvheadend and Kodi. TVH feeds the broadcast video to Kodi which is interlaced, and Kodi does the deinterlacing. Usually requires an OK CPU or GPU hardware support. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.8&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 2 Mar 2021 11:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Mar 2021 12:17"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.9">42684.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_8" target="_self">42684.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yes, and I've used ffmpeg with yadif 1 and 2x plenty of times. I generally use it with Hybrid because although I have a stack of batch commands ready made in a big text file, I'm inclined to fiddle with the settings and Hybrid just makes it easier. The problem is that many of the files I play with are very poor quality to begin with: 70s and 80s TV series, even some from the 90s and later, taken from DVD. Somewhere, and I have much too little knowledge to say where, the transcoding process knocks just enough quality off to be counterproductive. I suspect if I was working with a decent quality 576i or 1080i original, it would be fine - but then I probably wouldn't bother deinterlacing anyway since most hardware decoders in TVs do a better job anyway and I wouldn't be looking to improve the quality.<br /> <br /> I'm sure it's possible, but I've tried avidemux, avisynth, ffmpeg plus a whole load of free and commercial deinterlacers and enhancers and I almost always end up with a large number of hours expended and a result that isn't a significant improvement on the original, if at all.<br /> <br /> The really annoying part is that whereas I can buy absolute crap movies and series in every format up to including 4K (and maybe 8K soon) many of the classics of the big and small screens aren't available at all, and when they are it's in shitty DVDs, poorly produced. The BBC release of the Singing Detective isn't bad, it's just meh... a grainy, overcompressed, 576i. Potter wanted contrast between video inside shots of the hospital and film (some b&w) of outside and historical content. In the end it was all shot on film, so a decent remastering would be possible, always assuming the BBC haven't extended their usual level of tlc to the film, in which case it's probably rotted away somewhere. It won't happen. Potter's last couple of plays aren't even available new.<br /> <br /> The good news, is that Topaz has a "basic" deinterlace/enhance profile that doesn't appear to change the video length and it's also faster: 11-12 hours per hour of video as opposed to 16 plus, with audio in sync. I ran the first episode through and it's very impressive, so I've just fired off a batch job with all 6 episodes. I'll post a couple of comparative samples when it's finished. A minor issue is that for some reason Topaz has decided to compress the audio to 96K max which may be a pain for some videos. No idea why they don't just pass it through as is and remux at the end. Still, it wouldn't take long to remux the output with the original audio myself.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.9&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42684_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_42684_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 2 Mar 2021 12:20</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Mar 2021 12:21"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 22</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.10">42684.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42684.1#a42684_9" target="_self">42684.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I guess with an already poor source you want to avoid multi stage compression to retain as much quality as possible</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42684.10&return_msg=42684.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42684.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42684.11" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>