General Election 2019 - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.0&return_msg=42505.22"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.31">31–40</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.91">91–94</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42505.22">General Election 2019</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42505_22_94_10"> <a name="a42505_22"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_22"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">22 Nov 2019 20:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 22 Nov 2019 20:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">22 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22">42505.22</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.21">42505.21</a></div> <div class="message_body"> He and earlier, Swinson are both getting hammered on this.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.22&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.22"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_23"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_23"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">22 Nov 2019 21:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 23 Nov 2019 13:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">23 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.23">42505.23</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_22" target="_self">42505.22</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's at the point where it's beyond a joke. The evening concluded with 3 specific questions for him which he didn't even pretend to address. He just gave yet another mini speech about Brexit and he was allowed to get away with it. <br /> <br /> As for Jo Swinson - is it wrong that every time she appears on the telly-box the only thing that pops into my head is "Yeth, and I'm only thixteen." It probably is. It probably says something about how much work I need to do on my attitudes. I can't abide her. She's crass. Questioned about the level of student debt following the libdem/tory coalition she restricted herself to "sorry". It took a follow up question to ask the obvious "er, yes, so you're sorry - and what are you intending to do about it?"<br /> <br /> I'm never going to sympathise with the LibDem position, but I'm familiar with what the Liberal Party was like in the 70s. It was a genuine repository for alternative political thought much of it was centre of centre left, but it encompassed some pretty radical left wing thinking through its fabian links. It all turned to shit with the SDP/Liberal merger in 87. I have no idea at all what the LibDem's stand for. I mean, yes, I know they're pro EU and pro cancelling Article 50, but apart from that, a bit of tinkering with tax, legalising cannabis and a fistful of Hooray policies around good things like renewables and train fares, they just seem to be ferociously in favour of not a lot - except Corbyn is the Devil's cousin.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.23&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.23"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_24"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_24"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">22 Nov 2019 22:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 22 Nov 2019 22:54"></span></span> <span class="message_count">24 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.24">42505.24</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.20">42505.20</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <i>> Obviously the minimum unit pricing thing is an aberration.</i> <p>Yeah, because why the fuck should anyone want to save lives? <span class="emoticon e_plain" title=":|"><span class="e__">:|</span></span></p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.24&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.24"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_25"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_25"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">22 Nov 2019 22:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Nov 2019 15:08"></span></span> <span class="message_count">25 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.25">42505.25</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_24" target="_self">42505.24</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It was a response to an earlier remark by kos. I have no objection to the policy and for clarity I don't really think its an aberration.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.25&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.25"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_26"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_26"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">23 Nov 2019 14:04</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 23 Nov 2019 14:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">26 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.26">42505.26</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_23" target="_self">42505.23</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think the tories and libdems both took a shellacking from the evening's fiasco, vote-wise. I expect boris will play it safe for the remainder of the campaign (appearing only before friendly shills in the media) and jo will... quietly fade away.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.26&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.26"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_27"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_27"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Dave!!<span class="message_time">24 Nov 2019 12:14</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Nov 2019 15:08"></span></span> <span class="message_count">27 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.27">42505.27</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_24" target="_self">42505.24</a></div> <div class="message_body"> To be honest, I don't think the minimum pricing thing will make a whole lot of difference, plus it tends to penalise those on lower incomes the most. Some EU countries with the highest alcohol prices (ie, Finland) have high levels of alcohol consumption, yet go to Germany and despite the cheap alcohol, consumption is a lot lower in general. I don't have a problem with trying to reduce alcohol consumption, but I do feel that minimum pricing is not really the solution, an educational approach would be more effective (albeit more difficult).<br /> <br /> Personally though, I'll be voting SNP - mainly as it is a 2-horse race in my constituency between SNP and the Tories.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.27&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.27"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_28"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_28"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">24 Nov 2019 15:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Dave!! <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 14 Dec 2019 13:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">28 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.28">42505.28</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_27" target="_self">42505.27</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p><i>> it tends to penalise those on lower incomes the most.</i></p> <p>Yes, and I'm generally opposed to taxing the poor, but when the studies on alcohol consistently show greater harm to less well off people, a specifically targetted deterrant is worth considering.</p> <p> </p> <p><i>> Some EU countries with the highest alcohol prices (ie, Finland) have high levels of alcohol consumption, yet go to Germany and despite the cheap alcohol, consumption is a lot lower in general.</i></p> <p>Obviously price isn't the <em>only</em> factor, however your claim there does not match WHO statistics:</p> <p>Three year averages between 2009..2011 and 2015..2017 show Germany's alcohol consumption increasing from 12.9 to 13.4 litres per capita.</p> <p>In the same time period, Finland's consumption decreased from 12.6 to 10.7 litres per capita.</p> <p> </p> <p><i>> I do feel that minimum pricing is not really the solution, an educational approach would be more effective (albeit more difficult)</i></p> <p>I'm <em>always</em> in favour of education, but when it's not working then it needs to be combined with other approaches.</p> <p>Russia's average consumption peaked in 2003 at over 20 litres per capita. That was the year Russia introduced minimum unit pricing (along with other measures), and their consumption rates have been falling since then. For the same two periods mentioned above they went from 15.8 (2009..2011) to 11.7 (2015..2017).</p> <p>Since 2003, life expectancy in Russia has increased by ten years.</p> <p> </p> <p><i>> I don't think the minimum pricing thing will make a whole lot of difference</i></p> <p>I don't expect Scotland's results to mirror Russia, but the evidence I've seen definitely suggests MUP is a significant part of the solution.</p> <p><br /> </p> <p><i>> Personally though, I'll be voting SNP - mainly as it is a 2-horse race in my constituency between SNP and the Tories.</i></p> <p>It's still a one horse race here. <span class="emoticon e_sad" title=":("><span class="e__">:(</span></span></p> <p>Though their margin was significantly reduced last time, so perhaps there's an outside chance of that changing...</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 24 Nov 2019 15:35 by BOUGHTONP</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.28&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.28"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_29"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_29"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Nov 2019 15:53</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Nov 2019 16:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">29 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.29">42505.29</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_28" target="_self">42505.28</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">Russia's average consumption peaked in 2003 at over 20 litres per capita</div> <p>And that was vodka!</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.29&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.29"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_30"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_30"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">24 Nov 2019 16:16</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Nov 2019 16:35"></span></span> <span class="message_count">30 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.30">42505.30</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_29" target="_self">42505.29</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Those values are for the alcohol content - in 2003 about 2/3rds was vodka (and other spirits) and a quarter was beer. <p>If we assume beer to be ~5% and vodka ~40%, that means about 100 litres of beer and "only" 33 of vodka.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.30&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.30"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_31"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_31"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Nov 2019 16:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Nov 2019 16:37"></span></span> <span class="message_count">31 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.31">42505.31</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.22#a42505_30" target="_self">42505.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Egad.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.31&return_msg=42505.22" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.31"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42505.32" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>