Brexit deal nigh or nyet? - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.0&return_msg=42264.31"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.41">41–50</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.191">191–200</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42264.31">Brexit deal nigh or nyet?</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42264_31_200_10"> <a name="a42264_31"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_31"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">16 Jan 2019 20:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Jan 2019 21:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">31 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31">42264.31</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.30">42264.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There isn't much that I don't agree with about that post. However, the huge risk in allowing the Tory party to fuck it up is that it allows the 85% (and I plucked that from the air so no pie charts please - a simple agreement that I am correct will do) of the media controlled by the Tory Party to pursue their narrative about what Corbyn and the Labour party are about. I include the BBC in that seeing as all of the main political correspondents are clearly on the right including Andrew Marr who was a lefty when he thought it would get him laid at university, but now is too stupid to realise that he's happily right of centre.<br /><br /> I picked on Marr because a similar story can be told about Gove, who I just watched in his pomp, strutting and frothing in the no-confidence debate. Gove, of course, was a union activist when he couldn't get his willy into action any other way, but now thinks unions (and Corbyn) are spawn of the devil as set out in his "Idiot's Guide to Becoming Prime Minister". I wanted to watch his speech all the way through, but a bit of sick came up and I had to rush for a glass of water.<br /><br /> May and her red-lines? God knows. She's just invited party-leaders to talks on how they can better agree to her plan. No preconditions other than attending in French-maid costumes and publicly admitting how wrong they were to oppose her.<br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.31&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.31"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_32"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_32"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">16 Jan 2019 20:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Jan 2019 21:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">32 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.32">42264.32</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_31" target="_self">42264.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "a simple agreement that I am correct will do"<br /><br /> You stole that from May!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.32&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.32"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_33"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_33"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">16 Jan 2019 21:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Jan 2019 21:39"></span></span> <span class="message_count">33 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.33">42264.33</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_31" target="_self">42264.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I’m just not sure what choice there has been other than watching them fuck it up. It’s only today that May has even offered any cross party talks on it, and you just know they’ll not be in any way productive. If she folds on the red lines then half her own party rebels. Then again, she’s got until December to worry about that now so perhaps there’s a chance!<br /> <br /> I think labour and Corbyn have been pretty clear about what they want really; guaranteed rights for EU citizens, close ties, seeking an election most of all but other options to follow now including maybe this fabled second referendum. The right and centre press has reported this terribly and lied throughout, and there seems no way to change that no matter what they do. Even bland old Ed Miliband copped the same kind of shit. So, hope to get in and Levenson 2 those fuckers I suppose, along with the rest of it. Ugh, our own Rendle tweeted a few minutes ago saying any other opposition leader would’ve won the confidence vote today. What, persuaded Tories to vote themselves out of a job and got the DU fucking P onside somehow? I’m almost interested enough to actually ask him how. Reality distortion fields seem powerful these days. <br /> <br /> Anyway yeah I’m pretty depressed by it all when I fail in the project of not thinking about it. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.33&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.33"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_34"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_34"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">16 Jan 2019 21:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 00:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">34 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.34">42264.34</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_32" target="_self">42264.32</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I'm simply presenting a strong and stable argument that is in the interests of this thread.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.34&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.34"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_35"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_35"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">16 Jan 2019 21:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 10:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">35 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.35">42264.35</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_33" target="_self">42264.33</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There was no chance they'd lose the no confidence vote. Definitely ridiculous to think otherwise. No matter how many Tory MPs voted against the deal, every single one of them wants to be in the party of government.<br /> <br /> I'd also like a Corbyn government, or at least did before he effectively became pro-Brexit. Though I do realise he is somewhat sitting on the fence deliberately as a reasonable number of Labour voters and traditionally Labour areas support leaving. <br /> <br /> The anti-semitism stuff stinks too. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.35&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.35"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_36"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_36"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 00:22</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 07:52"></span></span> <span class="message_count">36 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.36">42264.36</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_35" target="_self">42264.35</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Supposedly he's always been anti-EU which, seeings what they did to Greece...</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.36&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.36"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_37"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_37"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 10:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 12:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">37 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37">42264.37</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_35" target="_self">42264.35</a></div> <div class="message_body"> the anti-semitism stuff seems almost entirely bullshit though. <br /><br /> and I don't agree he's become pro-Brexit, I think that's just more crappy reporting. He's honest and nuanced about it however!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.37&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.37"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_38"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_38"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 10:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 14:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">38 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.38">42264.38</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_36" target="_self">42264.36</a></div> <div class="message_body"> nah, he's been absolutely clear (and then terribly reported) about this: he's about 7/10 in favour of the EU, saying that it has some serious problems (it does) that are better resolved from within and the downsides of leaving are worse than remaining and trying to improve it.<br /><br /> Obviously 99.9% of the press then report this as TRAITOR CORBS HATES YOU AND THE EU but there we are.<br /><br /> Today the PM won't move on the red lines and Corbyn wants her to remove the no-deal possibility as a condition of talks moving forward. So she says no. Watch in a few days where, by her own clever thinking and decision making entirely!, she says no deal won't work and we should avoid it at all costs. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.38&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.38"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_39"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_39"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 12:29</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 13:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">39 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.39">42264.39</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_38" target="_self">42264.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Problem is all MPs who voted to activate Article 50 knew by definition that if they don't agree to a transition deal that automatically results in a no deal Brexit. No deal Brexit would be catastrophic, but they knowingly voted for that.<br /> <br /> I agree the anti-semitism has been amplified somewhat, but it's still there on the (far) left.<br /> <br /> If he's not pro-Brexit is he then pro implementing the referendum result?<br /> Slightly different with it being a "will of the people" argument.<br /> <br /> He's said he would renegotiate a different deal with the EU, single market etc, so that says he'd go ahead with Brexit if in power. Jobs first Brexit and all that, which makes him sound very stupid, because Brexit is pretty much guaranteed to cause job losses in all versions of it. If he would actually do that obviously remains to be seen.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Jan 2019 12:30 by ANT_THOMAS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.39&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.39"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_40"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_40"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 14:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 16:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">40 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.40">42264.40</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31#a42264_39" target="_self">42264.39</a></div> <div class="message_body"> All parliament have to be pro-democracy so none of them are going to say they'll reverse it immediately against 'the will of the fucking twats'. What's done is done until such time as they can persuade the masses that it's a bad idea to leave because of the downsides. Hopefully that renegotiation would get us there but given there's has been almost zero minds changed by the clusterfuck so far, I don't have much hope. ugh.<br /><br /> Regarding the far left, that's not really for Corbyn to personally do a lot about. The Party machinery has to do it, which is one of the things that make Labour good since its in the controls of the membership. The standards being asked are ludicrous compared to what many of the critics (EG press, tories) maintain themselves which is well below what Labour have ended up with now.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.40&return_msg=42264.31" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.40"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42264.41" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>