"Brexit" -ish - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.0&return_msg=42084.5"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.11">11–20</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.31">31–32</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42084.5">"Brexit" -ish</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42084_5_32_10"> <a name="a42084_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 5 Dec 2017 15:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 5 Dec 2017 17:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5">42084.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.1">42084.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's almost entertaining. Just about every entirely predictable "project fear" Remain warning has come about or is soon to come about, meanwhile the people in charge of this shit for the UK act like it's all a big surprise and descend further into humiliating incompetence. Meanwhile most of our newspapers work to deflect the blame onto whatever external cause they can think of, and few of the rest report it with much criticism. Sigh.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.5&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 15:28</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">6 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.6">42084.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Sorry for completely not understanding this - How does the border with Ireland have anything to do with Brexit? Isn't Ireland part of the UK and the laws are the same?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.6&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 15:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 23 Dec 2017 19:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.7">42084.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_6" target="_self">42084.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> No.<br /><br /> The island in question has two countries - Ireland and Northern Ireland.<br /> Northern Ireland is part of the UK.<br /> Ireland is a totally different, entirely independent country that is also part of the EU.<br /><br /> Due to the history of Ireland/NI, the long conflict and the border between the two we have the Good Friday Agreement. The GFA effectively brought peace to Northern Ireland, and part of the GFA was that there should be no hard border between North and South.<br /><br /> If the UK leaves the EU as planned, along with leaving the Single Market and removing the right of freedom of movement it would in theory require a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (UK), as Northern Ireland would not be in the EU and therefore new border customs, immigration etc rules would apply, meaning a hard border.<br /><br /> That would break the GFA and put the Peace Process in jeopardy.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Dec 2017 15:59 by ANT_THOMAS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.7&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 20:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Dec 2017 20:45"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.8">42084.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_7" target="_self">42084.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <i>> Ireland is a totally different, entirely independent country</i> <p>Ireland was partitioned in 1922, it had been a single country since at least 1542, with a shared culture that extends back long before that.</p> <p>Also, saying "Northern Ireland is part of the UK" is over-simplified - not all the laws in Northern Ireland are the same as in Great Britain, (and are likely becoming even more different as this mess unfolds).</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.8&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 20:50</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Dec 2017 21:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.9">42084.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_8" target="_self">42084.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> But it's correct, Northern Ireland is part of the UK. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I didn't say it was part of Great Britain or had the same laws, but part of the UK which is an irrefutable fact. <br /> <br /> And Ireland is an entirely different country, irrelevant of culture and history. Ireland ≠ Northern Ireland. Different government, different laws, different currency. Different. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.9&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 21:22</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Dec 2017 21:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.10">42084.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_9" target="_self">42084.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You were replying to a post containing "Isn't Ireland part of the UK and the laws are the same?" <p>GB and NI are the two parts of the UK. GB and NI do not have exactly the same laws. </p><p><i>> And Ireland is an entirely different country,</i> </p><p>No, they are currently distinct countries, but their differences are neither "entire" nor "total" - Ireland was a single country within living memory and there is significant support in RoI, NI, and GB for a return to a united Ireland. Presenting them as <em>completely</em> separate entities is misleading. </p><p><i>> Different government, different laws, different currency. </i> </p><p>Scotland has all three of those. </p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.10&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Dec 2017 22:00</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Dec 2017 00:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.11">42084.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_10" target="_self">42084.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Remember Ireland ≠ Northern Ireland.<br /> <br /> "Isn't Ireland part of the UK and the laws are the same?"<br /> <br /> The answer is No, because Ireland is not part of the UK.<br /> <br /> No, they are currently distinct countries, but their differences are neither "entire" nor "total". You could easily say that about any pair of bordered countries, culturally similar the closer to the border. But still different and separate countries. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.11&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">18 Dec 2017 01:23</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Dec 2017 11:03"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.12">42084.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_11" target="_self">42084.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>The answer is "Ireland is a divided land with only 6 of its 32 counties being in the UK, the other 26 counties being an independent Republic since 1922. </p><p>Whilst Northern Ireland is part of the UK and there are shared UK laws, Northern Ireland has an independent legal system to England and Wales, (as does Scotland). </p><p>Northern Ireland mostly voted to remain in the EU, but if the UK leaves the EU it brings up the issue of an EU border and potentially re-ignites the Troubles between NI, RoI and GB, which the 1998 Good Friday Agreement ended. </p><p><i>Plus</i> (stuff about DUP)"</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.12&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 Dec 2017 20:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Dec 2017 21:54"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.13">42084.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_12" target="_self">42084.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Europe is a divided land that at many points in time had different borders between different regions, that doesn't mean we currently define all the separate countries as once the same or part of others. We care what the borders are NOW.<br /><br /> Date of split, culture and the range of law across the UK are irrelevant.<br /><br /> Northern Ireland is not Ireland.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 18 Dec 2017 20:20 by ANT_THOMAS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.13&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42084_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_42084_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">18 Dec 2017 21:56</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Dec 2017 22:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">14 of 32</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.14">42084.14</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42084.5#a42084_13" target="_self">42084.13</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Northern Ireland <em>is</em> Ireland. That's why it's called <em>Northern</em> /Ireland/ <small>(Shit, didn't see that coming!)</small> <p>The reason this thread exists is because the separation is barely settled and the prospect of an EU border is stirring things up. </p><p>Why no discussion of the England/France border? Because <em>those two</em> <strong>are</strong> completely different countries with no recent ties. </p><p>Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are <em>not</em> completely different and this is directly relevant to why NI does not have exactly the same laws as GB.</p><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 18 Dec 2017 21:56 by BOUGHTONP</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42084.14&return_msg=42084.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42084.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42084.15" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>