Article: Brexit sell by date - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.0&return_msg=41947.32"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">31–34</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41947.32">Article: Brexit sell by date</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41947_32_34_10"> <a name="a41947_32"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_32"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">32 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.32">41947.32</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">Nor sure what the situation is in the US but generally probation and parole are different things altogether.<br /><br /> Parole is a provision that the offender is allowed to complete the term of a sentence of imprisonment without being confined in recognition of their promise not to reoffend and subject to a return to prison at the discretion of the judiciary.<br /><br /> Probation is a sentence whereby the offender is placed under the authority of the court (the court has probate) for a set period of time. Probation usually replaces imprisonment although there may be imprisonment if the terms of probation are not met.<br /><br /> Since a person on parole is technically serving a period of imprisonment, and an offender is debarred from voting when imprisoned, it follows that the right to vote is removed during parole. I see no evidence at all that probation involves loss of voting rights. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>I will go back and look at this some more, because you point out some important distinctions.<br /><br /> Keep in mind that it isn't unusual for CA prisons to release prisoners early and put them on both parole and probation, so they still cannot vote.<br /><br /> If the terms of probation are not met (which can be very simple violations, like having a beer) then you are once again blocked.<br /><br /> Interestingly, voting is not a constitutional "right" AFAIK, but there are fundamental rights that are taken away permanently. Personally, I don't think that someone who has committed a felony should be blocked from receiving a scholarship to attend college for instance, nor have their "fundamental rights" taken away permanently.</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.32&return_msg=41947.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.32"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_33"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_33"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">33 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.33">41947.33</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">Nor sure what the situation is in the US but generally probation and parole are different things altogether.<br /><br /> Parole is a provision that the offender is allowed to complete the term of a sentence of imprisonment without being confined in recognition of their promise not to reoffend and subject to a return to prison at the discretion of the judiciary.<br /><br /> Probation is a sentence whereby the offender is placed under the authority of the court (the court has probate) for a set period of time. Probation usually replaces imprisonment although there may be imprisonment if the terms of probation are not met.<br /><br /> Since a person on parole is technically serving a period of imprisonment, and an offender is debarred from voting when imprisoned, it follows that the right to vote is removed during parole. I see no evidence at all that probation involves loss of voting rights. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>But what purpose is served by taking away the right to vote? If a lot of people are doing something that is considered "criminal", then perhaps the laws need to be changed. <br /><br /> Drinking beer when you are 20 years old is a serious crime, but should it be? I once asked a friend in Italy what the drinking age was there, and after thinking about it, she didn't think there was one. She distinctly remembered going to the local grocery store as a small child and bringing home wine and bread - all by herself.<br /><br /> If a lot of people are turned into criminals by ridiculous laws, then they will not be able to vote in a way that changes these laws.</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 16:13 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.33&return_msg=41947.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.33"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_34"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_34"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:20</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">34 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.34">41947.34</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">s. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>- Companies will not hire you because their business insurance bars them from hiring people with a criminal record.<br /><br /> - If you try to start your own business so that you can have a job, it is nearly impossible to get a contractor license and business licenses are harder to obtain.<br /><br /> - If you do manage to get a contractor license, it is hard to get the required insurance.<br /><br /> - No public funding to further your education<br /><br /> - Housing is much more difficult to obtain<br /><br /> - You are barred from ever owning a gun (I know you don't care, but that is an important right in the US)<br /><br /> - If you move into an area, people will look up your name on the internet, see that you have a criminal record, and won't let their children play with your children.<br /><br /> - It is just a hair trigger of a parole or probation violation to get put back in jail, so essentially you have no voting rights.<br /><br /> I know people who have gone through this and it is a big challenge.<br /><br /> IMHO, this is essentially being treated as a felon for life.<br /><br /><br /> </p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 16:22 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.34&return_msg=41947.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.34"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </body>