In/out/shake it all about - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.0&return_msg=41766.37"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.41">41–50</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.91">91–93</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41766.37">In/out/shake it all about</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41766_37_93_10"> <a name="a41766_37"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_37"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 14:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Jun 2016 14:49"></span></span> <span class="message_count">37 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37">41766.37</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.31">41766.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I basically agree with this - see Ant's post about point 2.<br /><br /> 1. Yep, and I don't do that. I just feel like the racists who make a loud part of that 52% are now emboldened and it's going to get worse. See the wave of far-right anti-immigration party support we're getting today from the likes of Le Pen. Fucking hell! We need infrastructure, we have an austerity government instead.<br /><br /> 3. I think so too, I just think the vote this has happened to was so massively far the wrong one to actually do it at. I mean, there's shooting yourself in the foot and then there's firing a cannon at it.<br /> <p><span class="s1">"We voted against an entity that we don't understand, to prevent problems it didn't cause, in order to get back to a past that never happened"<br /><br /> "'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party."</span></p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.37&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.37"> <span class="rating">+2/2</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_38"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_38"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 15:03</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Jun 2016 15:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">38 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.38">41766.38</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_37" target="_self">41766.37</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I just wonder if EU expansionism into Eastern Europe (coupled with the reuniting of E. + W. Germany) was its undoing. Also, EU members' participation in US-led NATO middle-east follies fuelled the current massive refugee crisis, which was a huge factor in the leave victory IMO (global warming in the middle east, Africa and East Asia are also big, contributing factors to conflict and economic refugees).</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.38&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.38"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_39"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_39"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Serg (NUKKLEAR)<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 15:12</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Jun 2016 15:52"></span></span> <span class="message_count">39 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.39">41766.39</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_38" target="_self">41766.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I don't think the expansion into countries that weren't really ready for it was a good idea; ditto for freedom of movement. I don't really know how else they could've expanded, but opening up and forcing the Euro on a country and economy that are a fair bit below your community's doesn't strike me as a great idea.<br /><br /> The participation in NATO activities is, imho, a different kettle of fish. Refugees would've attempted to come anyway, but with lesser freedom of movement they wouldn't have gotten around as much.<br /><br /> Personally I think something similar to... whoever said it further up <span class="emoticon e_embarrassed" title=":-$"><span class="e__">:-$</span></span> : this wasn't as much a vote for a Brexit as it was a vote against the disappointment due to the recent years of poor Government, cuts, etc. It all got shoved together into one pot, stirred around a bit by both campaigns, and neither debunked nor combated properly by anyone with enough exposure, therefore ending up as a main outlet of people's frustration. I'm not really surprised by the outcome, though I was hoping it wouldn't have been the case.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.39&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.39"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_40"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_40"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 15:23</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Jun 2016 21:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">40 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.40">41766.40</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.30">41766.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Do you honestly believe, Jon, that the extreme right wingers who will soon lead the UK government - Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Chris Grayling and John Redwood - will support '<span style="font-size:11.52px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">education, healthcare, culture, travel'? They are ideologically opposed to social welfare and public services. They actually hate them. As soon as they're in power, they will return to this government's programme of cutting back public services and privatising public ones with renewed vigour because - in their philosophy - public services are inherently wrong - and closing or privatising them is right.<br /><br /> One of the functions of the European tier of government was that it was a force of moderation of politics, whether of the left or the right. An extremist government - like the one that the Brexit voters have called down upon the UK - can do incalculable damage because it is driven by ideology, not by the pragmatic needs of the people.<br /><br /> Then, of course, there's the inevitability that Scotland will use the Scottish vote result to justify another UK membership referendum. Welcome to the end of the United Kingdom.</span><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 24 Jun 2016 15:23 by MANTHORP</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.40&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.40"> <span class="rating">+4/4</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_41"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_41"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 16:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Serg (NUKKLEAR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Jun 2016 16:28"></span></span> <span class="message_count">41 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.41">41766.41</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_39" target="_self">41766.39</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "The participation in NATO activities is, imho, a different kettle of fish. Refugees would've attempted to come anyway, but with lesser freedom of movement they wouldn't have gotten around as much."<br /><br /> Yeah, I'm not saying refugees targeted Europe <em>because</em> of NATO (though terrorists obviously did), but that NATO helped <em>create</em> the refugee (and terrorism) crisis in the first place (Sadaam, Qadaffi --> ISIS), and Europe is a lot closer geographically, so it was bound to get the lion's share (so to speak).<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 24 Jun 2016 16:05 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.41&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.41"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_42"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_42"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 19:35</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: graphitone <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 Jun 2016 07:12"></span></span> <span class="message_count">42 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.42">41766.42</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.26">41766.26</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Of course. Official policy is the more the merrier. And if you want to smoke weed that's fine, as long as you brought enough to share. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.42&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.42"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_43"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_43"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: JonCooper<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 21:28</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 Jun 2016 08:58"></span></span> <span class="message_count">43 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.43">41766.43</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_40" target="_self">41766.40</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I honestly believe that we are better out than in yes. I have wanted this for at least 20 years and I couldn't be happier. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.43&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.43"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_44"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_44"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 21:53</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 20 Jul 2016 12:50"></span></span> <span class="message_count">44 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.44">41766.44</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_43" target="_self">41766.43</a></div> <div class="message_body"> But not addressing any of the specific questions, big surprise. Of course I don't expect you personally to be able to, but it'd be nice to think there was more to it than this.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.44&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.44"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_45"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_45"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">24 Jun 2016 23:24</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 20 Jul 2016 12:50"></span></span> <span class="message_count">45 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.45">41766.45</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.30">41766.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "Do you really think our country is so poo we can't decide things for ourselves any more? are we so dumbed down that we have to be told what to do?" <br /> <br /> <br /> What, exactly, is it that we were being forced to do against our will that will now change? </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.45&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.45"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41766_46"></a><div class="message" id="message_41766_46"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">25 Jun 2016 09:03</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 20 Jul 2016 12:50"></span></span> <span class="message_count">46 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.46">41766.46</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41766.37#a41766_43" target="_self">41766.43</a></div> <div class="message_body"> But what about my questions Jon: do you agree with the Tory hard right's agenda of reducing public services and social welfare?<br /><br /> And if the United Kingdom comes apart at the seams as a consequence - as seems likely - will it have been worth it?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41766.46&return_msg=41766.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41766.46"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41766.47" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>