Brexit - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.0&return_msg=41733.1"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.21">21–30</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41733.1">Brexit</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41733_1_30_10"> <a name="a41733_1"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_1"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">28 Apr 2016 22:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">1 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1">41733.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Hi, I am curious how this is being played and taken by people in the UK.<br /><br /> In spite of what Obama said during his speech there, there is zero chance that the US will do anything to trade isolate the UK, no matter what happens.<br /><br /> My interpretation, from what we are being media fed, is:<br /> - The UK banks didn't want to play by EU rules, so they wanted an exception carved out for them as a condition of joining. That appeared to be the main point of Cameron's negotiations, at least from here.<br /> - Over time, every country ends up with more and more layers of government and rules. Adding in the EU is another layer of government and costs. (we have nothing to brag about on our side of the pond either when it comes to layers of government)<br /> - The UK is in a difficult position right now, as they have been playing it close to China, and it is really challenging to be fully engaged with the FED, NATO, EU, and a China partner at the same time. Maybe it wasn't so hard in the past, but now it is getting really challenging.<br /> - If the EU is making the rules, then why does a country need such an expensive, top-heavy government of its own?<br /> - I am not sure about the UK, but the Euro is a handy currency for us travelers.<br /><br /> Do voters there think the outcome actually matters, or is it ho-hum?<br /><br /><br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Jun 2016 02:25 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.1&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.1"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_2"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_2"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">28 Apr 2016 23:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 30 Apr 2016 06:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">2 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.2">41733.2</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_1" target="_self">41733.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's playing at a more visceral level than that, I think. <br /><br /> The UK Independence Party (UKIP) is a far-right, somewhat libertarian party that commands a good deal of media time but polls lower than its votes, because of the perversity of the UK's first-past-the-post voting system (I have no time for UKIP, but I have no time for FPTP either).<br /><br /> UKIP is strongly pro-Brexit, for largely jingoistic reasons, as is a smattering of the right-wing rump of the Conservatives (the most significant of whom is Boris Johnson, Mayor of London and a potential successor to David Cameron as leader of the Conservatives). The Conservative Brexiters tend towards a free market argument. This is not to say that there aren't left-wing Brexiters - there are - and Jeremy Corbyn, the very left-wing leader of the Labour party, is highly skeptical of the EU, whilst ultimately falling on the 'remain' side of the fence.<br /><br /> It's all pretty academic: for all the endless acres of press and media coverage, the result is a foregone conclusion: a comfortable win for the Remain vote. British voters are generally conservative (with a small 'c') and little coherent argument has been made for the Brexit side. Both sides are playing the fear card, and it's a hell of a lot easier to make a coherent scare story out of change than it is to make it out of the continuation of the status quo.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.2&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.2"> <span class="rating">+3/3</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 09:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Apr 2016 13:03"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.3">41733.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_2" target="_self">41733.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Fear of immigration seems to be a driving force.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.3&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 10:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 30 Apr 2016 06:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.4">41733.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_1" target="_self">41733.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">In spite of what Obama said during his speech there, there is zero chance that the US will do anything to trade isolate the UK, no matter what happens.</div> <p>Why would anyone care what obama says? All he is doing as far as that goes, is trying to get a photo op over there. Yes, there is no way the U.S. will trade isolate the U.K., especially considering the outreach to Cuba - not that the embargo made any sense in the first place; it is one area where I actually agree with the jug-eared blighter (if it was even his idea in the first place).</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.4&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 13:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Apr 2016 14:39"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.5">41733.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_3" target="_self">41733.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It is a very divisive issue, with (broadly) the left calling for greater immigration of refugees (well, just any would be an improvement!); and (broadly) the right using it to stoke fear. There's a high degree of correlation between the hard right and the Brexit lobby.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.5&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 14:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 30 Apr 2016 06:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.6">41733.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_1" target="_self">41733.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> To go for your question specifically, I doubt it matters much. Whatever's going to happen to the world in the next few decades will not be affected much by the UK being in or out of the EU. <br /><br /> I think the decision is so complicated it's basically impossible for most people to have any kind of real understanding of the pros and cons, so we - as ever in politics these days - will decide through soundbites, oversimplifications and complete bullshit. Just for a change.<br /><br /> My personal take right now:<br /><br /> > I don't trust our national government, banks and so on to be 'better' for society without the EU's rules and regulations. Just the opposite if anything.<br /> > The prominent spokespeople for the Exit campaigns are almost entirely repellent pond scum about anything else they hold an opinion on, so I'm not inclined to expect them to be any different this time.<br /> > Therefore, remain.<br /><br /> There's part of me that would be interested in working it all out properly and rationally, but it's a waste of time to attempt it.<br /><br /> edit - I also just realised I should add a point that by no means do I like all the prominent Remain spokespeople. David fucking Cameron for a start. But still, it's not quite such an exclusively cunty club.<br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 29 Apr 2016 15:09 by MILKO</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.6&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.6"> <span class="rating">+2/2</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 15:45</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 30 Apr 2016 06:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.7">41733.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_1" target="_self">41733.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Pretty much what Milko said to be honest.<br /> <br /> I want to be part of the EU. From a business point of view the current uncertainty is absolutely shit. Working in an industry that relies on a strong pound for lower cost imports means costs are currently increasing because of the exchange rates at the moment. <br /> <br /> If we leave it could probably, for a short time, make travelling a bit more difficult for UK nationals. I would assume that most EU countries would just allow continued access, but they don't need to and some might not. Imagine applying for a Visa to travel to France when there's a tunnel already. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.7&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 17:06</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">8 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.8">41733.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The real question, that no one is prepared to offer an answer to, is this:<br /><br /> If we leave the EU will we get duty-free shopping back on shorthaul flights?<br /><br /> Asking for a friend.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.8&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.8"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 17:40</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Apr 2016 18:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.9">41733.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_8" target="_self">41733.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Two words:<br /><br /> home<br /><br /> still</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.9&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41733_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_41733_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">29 Apr 2016 18:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Apr 2016 19:06"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 30</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.10">41733.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.1#a41733_9" target="_self">41733.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Are you? Well get to work already!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41733.10&return_msg=41733.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41733.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41733.11" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>