The natives are getting restless - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.0&return_msg=41190.121"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.101">101–110</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.111">111–120</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121">121–130</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.131">131–140</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.181">181–189</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41190.121">The natives are getting restless</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41190_121_189_10"> <a name="a41190_121"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_121"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 20:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">121 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121">41190.121</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.108">41190.108</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">And then you criticise the US democratic process. Odd, no?</div> <p>The U.S. "Democratic" process, for as good as it might be in some respects is exceedingly flawed which is why Lucy crticises it and is quite right in doing so.<br /><br /> Basically in the U.S. we have two kinds of people that are a combination of several factors: voters and non-voters; relatively informed and relatively uninformed; emotional and logical; pro-union (as in labour) and anti-union; and so on.<br /><br /> The categories could be endless and there are commonalities in the combinations that sort of define the typical Democrat and the typical Republican. Where it becomes a problem is when the low information voters use a single issue to define their entire vote. Politicans cater to this and try to appear to be the most appealing to the most number of people on single issues; it isn't as simple as it seems because they have to try to do it in such a way as to not really tip their hand for total support or rejection of a topic. Nobody lays out their entire platform becasue they'd lose votes that way. Then they do as much as they can for themselves to stay in power and try to bribe their constituents with their own tax money in the form of projects.<br /><br /> If we called city inhabitants Democrats in Scotland and suburbanites Republicans in Scotland, that would fairly accurately show how the vote went in America for prezbo. That's why he won, appeal to large population centers. Also, prezbo won much more of the young, idealistic vote (against young idealists voting republican) which is probably similar to the demographic voting for secession. In the Scottish scenario I see their vote as probably more defining and beneficial (potentially) in end results than defeat would indicate. At least I hope so.</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.121&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.121"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_122"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_122"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: JonCooper<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:17"></span></span> <span class="message_count">122 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.122">41190.122</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.117">41190.117</a></div> <div class="message_body"> if your wife asked for a separation you wouldn't want to be involved?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.122&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.122"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_123"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_123"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">123 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.123">41190.123</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_122" target="_self">41190.122</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Scotland and the UK isn't a marriage though. I don't really feel like analogies are helpful on this one. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.123&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.123"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_124"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_124"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:41"></span></span> <span class="message_count">124 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.124">41190.124</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.120">41190.120</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Idealist, romantic, prick! It is none of your business!<br /><br /> Actually that is how I voted in the poll. The knee jerk reaction is to say yes. But without a full foundation for continuance after the vote and all the ramifications involved it would seem to be more emotional than practical. I think if they work out details in advance of the next vote, perhaps there is success the next time around. Or perhaps if Britain follows through on promises to give more power to Edinburgh, they won't feel the need to have another vote.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.124&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.124"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_125"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_125"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">125 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.125">41190.125</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_122" target="_self">41190.122</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Milko is probably right on this one.<br /><br /> But let's see it as an abusive relationship. Should the abused have to seek permission from the abuser to end the marriage?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.125&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.125"> <span class="rating">-1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_126"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_126"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:16</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:56"></span></span> <span class="message_count">126 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.126">41190.126</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.119">41190.119</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I am not getting the concepts but I think it was because I was up too early Thursday morning and to sleep too late this morning following the vote.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.126&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.126"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_127"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_127"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: JonCooper<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:18</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:56"></span></span> <span class="message_count">127 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.127">41190.127</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_125" target="_self">41190.125</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Actually, I think Milko is probably right too<br /><br /> I don't think this has been an abusive relationship, I think Scotland has been treated pretty well and I am glad to see a majority of them think so too<br /><br /> I just see it as an anomaly that, when the possible result was break up of the union, 92% of the members were not involved in the decision</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.127&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.127"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_128"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_128"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Ken (SHIELDSIT)<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 15:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">128 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.128">41190.128</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_124" target="_self">41190.124</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I know I don't have any ties currently, and I guess it is a romantic pick! My grams came from Scotland when she was but a wee lass. I'm pretty sure I've posted the boarding pass here in the past from their adventures to America. I think she was 7 when they came here. She passed away two years ago but I can still hear her slightly accented voice! It said vote yes!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.128&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.128"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_129"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_129"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 15:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 16:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">129 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.129">41190.129</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_122" target="_self">41190.122</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Artful, but it isn't the same at all.<br /><br /> I'd suspect that if my wife wanted separation, my vote would not really count anyway. Plus, she is catholic so she would want an annulment vs separation or divorce, but she'd never get an annulment if I had anything to say about it. Annulments are, as you lot say, bollocks. Church-santioned divorce to salve a conscience via a "donation" to the church of $1200.00 or more (likely way more today) is ridiculous. It is all about the money.<br /><br /> Two people who marry should have worked out their differences prior and made a concerted wffort at communication and commitment along the way. I took the oath of marriage seriously; I did not have to marry, I chose to. It is an ethereal thing, a marriage, one that too many take lightly or don't truly believe in in the first place. For some it is a thing to do or a societal license to have children. I have heard many men say that and more. If I hadn't believed in the sanctity of marriage, I would not have participated in one.<br /><br /> If my wife wanted a separation, in a theoretical sense, why would I want a vote? If she doesn't want me any more, I don't want her. That isn't a "vote", it is resignation to a reality.<br /><br /> In the Scottish sense, they are separate from England because of devolution as I understand it. It is I think quite a bit more complicated an arrangement than our States because the U.S. Supreme Court has determined secession is uncontitutional, although the U.S. Constitution does not specifically address the issue. This more came about as a result of the Civil War.<br /><br /> I have to admit being rather ignorant about the Scottish situation. I'd welcome more explanation on Scots and their desires to be independent. Fascinating historical event and hardly much on it here. Most people here probably don't even know about the Declaration of Arbroath as I didn't before the other day, upon which our own Declaration was based.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.129&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.129"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_130"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_130"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 15:09</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 15:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">130 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.130">41190.130</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121#a41190_128" target="_self">41190.128</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Haha! I'd have been interested what my grandmother would have thought. She came here in '47, a war bride. My mom was born over there in '43 and I haven't even talked to her about it yet. How silly of me.<br /><br /> ** No wonder you are such an anglophile. <span class="emoticon e_tongue" title=":-P"><span class="e__">:-P</span></span> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Sep 2014 15:11 by FIXRMAN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.130&return_msg=41190.121" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.130"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41190.131" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>