Getting into it - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.0&return_msg=40602.1"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.21">21–25</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=40602.1">Getting into it</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="40602_1_25_10"> <a name="a40602_1"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_1"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Oscarvarium (OZGUR)<span class="message_time">31 Jul 2013 04:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">1 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1">40602.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> As someone with almost no programming experience and with a view to hopefully (eventually) being able to do some games programming at some point, is there any good place to start? I'm fairly serious (or at least sleep-deprived serious) about wanting to actually learn it as a skill as opposed to looking for quick tutorials, and I've been looking at the courses available <a href="http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/find-by-topic/">here</a> but it's difficult to make much of a judgement on them with so little knowledge.<br /><br /> I'm not looking to code my own engine from scratch or anything insane like that, just to be able to make something relatively simple in an existing engine (and actually understand what I'm doing, which is where every tutorial I've ever tried has fallen down) and then build things up from there as I learn more. Any recommendations for which languages are useful, and any really good resources for learning them? I'm aware that it's good practice to start with C/C+/C++/C#/Type C negative, but is it a problem to jump straight into scripting languages considering I'm not looking to undertake any kind of massive projects?<br /><br /> I'm typing this while still awake at 6am with a lot of stupid shit on my mind so I'll probably expand more tomorrow.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.1&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.1"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_2"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_2"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">31 Jul 2013 06:09</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Oscarvarium (OZGUR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 31 Jul 2013 15:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">2 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.2">40602.2</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_1" target="_self">40602.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You're going to need to get a grounding in general coding stuff first of all. Forget about C and C++, these days they're for the people who want to make the game engines rather than the games.<br /><br /> C# in combination with Unity3D is worth aiming at. But I think if you start there you're just going to learn Unity rather than coding.<br /><br /> I'd very strongly recommend starting with Lua and using <a href="https://love2d.org/">Love2D</a> which is a really nice cross-platform, hardware accelerated game engine. Lua's a lovely language which will give you a solid grounding in a lot of coding principles. And Love2d's good enough that you can actually make proper <a href="http://stabyourself.net/mari0/">games</a> in it - it's not simply a learner's tool. It has very good documentation in its wiki and it's all very self-contained. Easy to distribute stuff you make, too.<br /><br /> And when you're comfortable with the way a game flows as a program you can decide where to go next. Or you could stick with Love, there's no downside really unless you want to do something 3d.<br /><br /> I'd avoid Python/Pygame. It gets recommended a lot for beginners but it's comparatively disjointed/disorganised, has fucking awful documentation and distributing stuff is a pain. And Python's a bit <em>too</em> weird/idiosyncratic compared to other languages so less of what you learn will be transferable.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.2&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.2"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">31 Jul 2013 06:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Oscarvarium (OZGUR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 31 Jul 2013 15:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.3">40602.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_1" target="_self">40602.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Oh and Javascript + Canvas (i.e. 'HTML5') might be worth looking at, too. <br /><br /> Upsides: Javascript's a very flexible language. Accelerated 3D is an option (once you know what you're doing). It'll run on absolutely everything from phones to Linux PCs. And HTML5 games are probably the future.<br /><br /> Downsides: Javascript being such a flexible language means there's a million ways to do any one thing. Documentation is poor/dispersed and... it'll just be more of a struggle than Lua. Learning Lua first would make transitioning to Javascript piss easy though.<br /><br /> So yeah I recommend Lua/Love first.<br /><br /></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.3&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">31 Jul 2013 07:24</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 31 Jul 2013 15:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.4">40602.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_2" target="_self">40602.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Agree about Python, I still don't really understand. I do get on well with C# nowadays, though.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.4&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Ken (SHIELDSIT)<span class="message_time">31 Jul 2013 14:30</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Oscarvarium (OZGUR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 31 Jul 2013 15:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.5">40602.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_1" target="_self">40602.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> My ADD is bad today, I didn't read your whole post but I think/hope I got the general idea. I recently decided that I and Tanner would learn how to program for XBox and Windows Phone. I haven't started anything yet, but I do have all of the stuff needed to do it. You are welcome to any of it (no idea if it's stuff normal people would have to purchase or not) I got from my MSDN account mostly. I also have a pretty big shit pile of ebooks/pdf's to get started. If you are interested let me know and I can share it with you.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.5&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Oscarvarium (OZGUR)<span class="message_time"> 1 Aug 2013 00:09</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 1 Aug 2013 00:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.6">40602.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_2" target="_self">40602.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> That sounds absolutely ideal, cheers! I've heard a lot of good things about Lua.<br /><br /> Is the <a href="https://www.love2d.org/wiki/Main_Page">wiki</a>/<a href="https://www.love2d.org/wiki/Getting_Started">tutorials</a> a decent way to learn the language or is there somewhere else that will give me a better grasp of fundamentals? I hate going through tutorials that will at some point just dump a block of code and say "copy and paste this" without explaining what any of it does.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.6&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 1 Aug 2013 00:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Oscarvarium (OZGUR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 1 Aug 2013 01:54"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.7">40602.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_6" target="_self">40602.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, stick to the wiki and the tutorials linked therein.<br /><br /> Until you're done with them, obviously, then look elsewhere <span class="emoticon e_pipe" title=":Y"><span class="e__">:Y</span></span><br /><br /> Also Love comes with a bunch of examples built in which is nice. You can have a look at their code and pull them apart and stuff.<br /><br /><br /><br /></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.7&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 1 Aug 2013 00:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 1 Aug 2013 07:32"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.8">40602.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_4" target="_self">40602.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah I know a lot of people who swear by C#. I think if you can get your head round class based inheritance (which I was never able to do, prototype based makes <em>so</em> much more sense in my head) then it's pretty much perfect. Does all the tedious stuff for you and lets you get on with coding. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.8&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Matt<span class="message_time"> 1 Aug 2013 12:45</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 1 Aug 2013 15:27"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.9">40602.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_8" target="_self">40602.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"> <b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.8">Lucy (X3N0PH0N)</a></div> <div class="quote"> Prototype based makes <em>so</em> much more sense in my head. </div> <p> Like, seriously? Prototype-based programming isn't even real inheritance<em> </controversial></em></p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.9&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a40602_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_40602_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 1 Aug 2013 15:38</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Matt <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 1 Aug 2013 16:02"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 25</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.10">40602.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=40602.1#a40602_9" target="_self">40602.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Aye. Also I find it much easier to think in terms of verbs doing things to nouns (i.e. functions acting on data structures (from the outside)) than in terms of nouns containing methods to do things to themselves/other things.<br /><br /> And I like weakly typed languages.<br /><br /> I'm essentially just a terrible coder <span class="emoticon e_pipe" title=":Y"><span class="e__">:Y</span></span><br /><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 1 Aug 2013 15:38 by X3N0PH0N</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=40602.10&return_msg=40602.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="40602.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="40602.11" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>