Ecuador et al - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.0&return_msg=39835.9"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.11">11–20</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.91">91–93</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=39835.9">Ecuador et al</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="39835_9_93_10"> <a name="a39835_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 16:34</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 16:37"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">39835.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.6">39835.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">there is no legal framework for Sweden to guarantee he won't be extradited to the US</div><br /> Fuck frameworks. It needs whoever is in charge of these things (either the foreign minister or a judge or whatever) to say "you're guaranteed safe passage. If you're subsequently charged and found guilty, you'll be imprisoned in Sweden, otherwise you'll be allowed safely back to wherever".<br /> <br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">it would be illegal for the Sweden to extradite him to face any kind of conditions that would be illegal in the EU - i.e., the death penalty or torture.</div><br /> I'm pretty sure the US denies that they are torturing Bradley Manning?<br /> <br /> The US would presumably say they only want him for questioning, so it wouldn't be illegal - are Sweden responsible for what happens once the US have his hands on them, if they "believed" he was safe to go there?<br /> <br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">that's just not how it works</div><br /> That's just the lamest cop-out ever.<br /> <br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">But no extradition request has been made by the US.</div><br /> Of course not. Again, they're not going to show their hand before it's guaranteed.<br /> If the US and Sweden aren't going to play pass the parcel then they just need to say it.<br /> If they have no intention of doing it, why would they not say it?<br /> <br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">In the grand scheme of things, it's only a recent development that he's put himself out of the system, as it were.</div><br /> I'm not sure this counts as being out of the system (as opposed to just using another system), but either way it's only happened now because all in-system ways of fighting the move have been blocked.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.9&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 16:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 16:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.10">39835.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_9" target="_self">39835.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> Fuck frameworks. It needs whoever is in charge of these things (either the foreign minister or a judge or whatever) to say "you're guaranteed safe passage. If you're subsequently charged and found guilty, you'll be imprisoned in Sweden, otherwise you'll be allowed safely back to wherever".<br /> </div><br /> <br /> So you think it would be acceptable for Swedens elected to act outside of the law and / or make promises that they simply can't keep? Who is going to uphold this agreement, because it certainly wouldn't the judiciary or the EU. It's all fun and games to say "But they should do a, b and c, but I really don't think they're going to start passing new laws, which may or may not be in breach of international law.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> I'm pretty sure the US denies that they are torturing Bradley Manning?<br /> </div><br /> <br /> Manning is a US citizen so it's kind of a moot point, but I do agree that his treatment has been a disgrace. FWIW, I think the US justice system borders on being 3rd world. But that's not a discussion for now.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> The US would presumably say they only want him for questioning, so it wouldn't be illegal - are Sweden responsible for what happens once the US have his hands on them, if they "believed" he was safe to go there?<br /> </div><br /> <br /> That's hypothetical and I don't know, but I imagine it wouldn't come down to phrases like 'reason to believe' etc.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> That's just the lamest cop-out ever.<br /> </div><br /> <br /> No, no it's not. Why should the UK, Sweden and the EU make huge adjustments to years of precedented law for one man who is desperate to act outside of it?<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> Of course not. Again, they're not going to show their hand before it's guaranteed.<br /> If the US and Sweden aren't going to play pass the parcel then they just need to say it.<br /> If they have no intention of doing it, why would they not say it?<br /> </div><br /> <br /> Because they simply can't promise it and secondly, why should they? At the end of the day, while Assange is 'safe' for the time being, he's stuck in a fucking embassy. There's really no advantage for Sweden to go to the effort - it's just a waiting time now. Governments don't like being held to ransom at the best of times.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> I'm not sure this counts as being out of the system (as opposed to just using another system), but either way it's only happened now because all in-system ways of fighting the move have been blocked.</div><br /> <br /> You're right, maybe out of reach would have been a better phrase.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Aug 2012 16:45 by PILOTDAN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.10&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 16:57</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: johngti_mk-ii <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:19"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.11">39835.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.8">39835.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> To be precise, he didn't force anyone to have sex - the issue was whether consensual sex was had with or without a condom.<br /> <br /> I'm not saying that's ok, just pointing out it's different to what saying someone is a rapist generally brings to mind.<br /> <br /> I don't know/care whether he's guilty, and I don't care that he's a knob (though I agree that he is).<br /> <br /> (However, if he is guilty, why - when the case was initially brought - were the charges dropped? What new evidence caused it to be re-opened?)<br /> <br /> For me, the issue is one of governments being bullies/playing with people.<br /> <br /> If he's not at risk of being extradited to the US, there's no reason for them not to say so.<br /> <br /> Also, the only reason we're hearing about this is because he's making a fuss. If it was a normal person it wouldn't be in the news.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.11&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.12">39835.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_11" target="_self">39835.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.11">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote">To be precise, he didn't force anyone to have sex - the issue was whether consensual sex was had with or without a condom.<br /> <br /> I'm not saying that's ok, just pointing out it's different to what saying someone is a rapist generally brings to mind.<br /> <br /> </div><br /> <br /> Careful here Pete, I know what you're saying but it's generally best to avoid categorising rape! The gritty details are irrelevant and there's nothing to say we have them all, anyway.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote"><br /> (However, if he is guilty, why - when the case was initially brought - were the charges dropped? What new evidence caused it to be re-opened?)<br /> <br /> For me, the issue is one of governments being bullies/playing with people.<br /> </div><br /> <br /> As I said, the prosecutor went to court and argued for them to reopened. I'm not sure what, if any, new evidence there was but legal due process was followed.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote"><br /> If he's not at risk of being extradited to the US, there's no reason for them not to say so.<br /> <br /> Also, the only reason we're hearing about this is because he's making a fuss. If it was a normal person it wouldn't be in the news.</div><br /> <br /> There IS a reason for them not to say so, and the reason is that they simply can't make that kind of guarantee. If the US DO request extradition through legal channels, Sweden can not simply turn around and go "Nah, dude - we said he was cool with us. Soz".<br /> <br /> Or rather, they probably could, but it takes us down one hell of a road. The worlds far from perfect, but at least we've reached a stage where the major players work together and abide by some common laws and goals. When one country starts ignoring that, it fucks the whole thing up. Ecuador probably doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US, so it's fine for them to play by whatever rules they decide. But Sweden definitely does, and Sweden also need to play by EU rules.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Aug 2012 17:04 by PILOTDAN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.12&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:12"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.13">39835.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_10" target="_self">39835.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Who says they can't keep the promise? <span class="emoticon e_unsure" title=":/"><span class="e__">:/</span></span><br /> <br /> Why is it "acting outside the law" to say the equivalent of "whilst in Sweden for the purposes of this alleged action, you will not be subject to any other extradition requests"?<br /> <br /> Why isn't there <em>already</em> a law to that effect? i.e. Give someone a fair trial and let it be concluded <em>before</em> some government comes and takes them away.<br /> <br /> The whole premise of extraditing someone for something that isn't illegal in the country where you performed the act is fucked up.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.13&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:16</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:17"></span></span> <span class="message_count">14 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.14">39835.14</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_12" target="_self">39835.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Careful here Pete, I know what you're saying but it's generally best to avoid categorising rape! The gritty details are irrelevant and there's nothing to say we have them all, anyway.</div><br /> Yeah, it's just my pedantry being irritated.<br /> <br /> I've seen "alleged sexual offences" in several reports, which is probably the safest/balanced way to reference things?<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">but at least we've reached a stage where the major players work together and abide by some common laws and goals.</div><br /> So you're saying it's a <em>good</em> thing that the powerful government around the world work together to exploit the citizens they are supposed to serve?<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">When one country starts ignoring that, it fucks the whole thing up.</div><br /> You mean like by invading a country to look for mythical weapons?<br /> <br /> Let's hope that never happens, or who knows what reaction it might cause... <span class="emoticon e_unsure" title=":/"><span class="e__">:/</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.14&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_15"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_15"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:17</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">15 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.15">39835.15</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_13" target="_self">39835.13</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>How can they possibly keep the promise when there is now law for them to do so? Bitch about there not being one by all means, but there's no pre-emptive way to say "That person can't be extradited" - do you not see the huge potential for abuse?</p> <p> </p> <p>It's one thing to have the legal arguments once the extradition request is made, but I really don't' see how it could possibly work before hand?</p> <p> </p> <p>It's acting outside of the law because there are no laws to govern this. I don't that it's illegal, just untested and not legislated for.</p> <p> </p> <p>I kind of agree with your last sentence, but it's very much a grey area - especially with more modern crimes. I'm not completely against Assange and I do think the US extradition treaties have some major issues, namely that their hugely biased and one sided - but it's still kind of a side point as one hasn't been made.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.15&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.15"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_16"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_16"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">16 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.16">39835.16</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_14" target="_self">39835.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.14">Peter (BOUGHTONP)</a></div><div class="quote"><br /> Yeah, it's just my pedantry being irritated.<br /> <br /> I've seen "alleged sexual offences" in several reports, which is probably the safest/balanced way to reference things?<br /> </div><br /> <br /> I believe in Sweden the offence is, and the charges are for rape. In part, at least - so it's entirely fair to say he's wanted for rape.<br /> <br /> I'm ignoring the rest because I think you're getting a bit silly to be honest.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.16&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.16"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_17"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_17"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:20</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">17 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.17">39835.17</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_12" target="_self">39835.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">The gritty details are irrelevant <br /> </div><br /> <br /> <br /> Don't be so fucking naive. There's a world of difference between a violent, forced sex attack and what Mr Assange is accused of. 'Categorising' is a pointless exercise, but by the same token it's completely inappropriate and offensive to victims of forced sex to equate what they have experienced to what Assange is accused of.<br /> <br /> For the record, I do think Assange is a dick* and should answer to the charges against him in Sweden. <br /> <br /> <br /> There's an interesting article on the Guardian from December 2010 which goes into a bit more detail of the charges than what most current news reports do. To my mind** it seems like a case of 3 people making a bunch of stupid decisions that they later regret.<br /> <br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden">http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden</a><br /> <br /> <br /> *regardless of the charges<br /> <br /> **and of course my view is totally irellevant - I am neither an involved party nor someone with the required legal and social experience of Swedish culture and justice system to pass any form of moral judgement.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.17&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.17"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39835_18"></a><div class="message" id="message_39835_18"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Monsoir (PILOTDAN)<span class="message_time">19 Aug 2012 17:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Aug 2012 17:40"></span></span> <span class="message_count">18 of 93</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.18">39835.18</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.9#a39835_17" target="_self">39835.17</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39835.17">Hugh et al le J (KOSWIX)</a></div><div class="quote">quote: The gritty details are irrelevant <br /> <br /> Don't be so fucking naive. There's a world of difference between a violent, forced sex attack and what Mr Assange is accused of. 'Categorising' is a pointless exercise, but by the same token it's completely inappropriate and offensive to victims of forced sex to equate what they have experienced to what Assange is accused of.<br /> </div><br /> <br /> I think you're completely wrong, so let's leave it there.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39835.18&return_msg=39835.9" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39835.18"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="39835.19" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>