To AV or not to AV - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.0&return_msg=38444.12"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.21">21–30</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.111">111–115</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=38444.12">To AV or not to AV</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="38444_12_115_10"> <a name="a38444_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 10:41</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: PNCOOL <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 11:40"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12">38444.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.1">38444.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yes to AV as it's slightly less shit, and *could* see smaller parties win more seats (but probably wont) </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.12&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 10:41</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 10:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.13">38444.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.11">38444.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b>PB</div><div class="quote">A successful Yes result means more chance of smaller/independent candidates getting seats.</div><br /> It really doesn't. If you class Lib Dems as being smaller then maybe, but there is no chance anyone beneath the big 3 will get seats except in very few constituencies.<br /> <br /> The only way smaller parties will have a good chance of winning seats is with a proper PR system.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 4 May 2011 10:42 by ANT_THOMAS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.13&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 10:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 10:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">14 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.14">38444.14</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.11">38444.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">A successful Yes result means more chance of smaller/independent candidates getting seats.</div><br /> <br /> No it doesn't. The balance may shift a little between the major parties is all that will happen.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.14&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_15"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_15"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 10:47</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">15 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.15">38444.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You three have all just said slightly different things. <span class="emoticon e_confused" title=":S"><span class="e__">:S</span></span><br /> <br /> PLEASE GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!<br /> <br /> (and then explain to me why it will/wont help)</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.15&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.15"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_16"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_16"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 10:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 11:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">16 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.16">38444.16</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12#a38444_15" target="_self">38444.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>I can't be bothered to explain it all fully but the smaller parties would still need an overall 50% of the vote, either by 1st choice of choices after that, the big 3 will (nearly) always get far more 1st choice votes and if they don't they will easily make up the difference to 50% from 2nd/3rd/4th choice. With AV there is more chance of people voting for a smaller party as 1st choice because they know their backup can be a big party.</p> <p> </p> <p>I've probably explained this very poorly, but thankfully someone else will step in and explain it better.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.16&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.16"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_17"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_17"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 11:00</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 11:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">17 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.17">38444.17</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12#a38444_15" target="_self">38444.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>What ant said basically, but it depends on people using their vote fullly.</p> <p> </p> <p>It removes the idea that voting for (x) is a wasted vote, and in theory you could see some crazy changes.in.voting behaviour. But people are boring and will pobably still vote the same as before.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.17&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.17"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_18"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_18"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 11:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">18 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.18">38444.18</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Thanks, you've both made me depressed now. <span class="emoticon e_sad" title=":("><span class="e__">:(</span></span><br /> <br /> Is there any point in going to vote at all? <span class="emoticon e_tear_confused" title=":'S"><span class="e__">:'S</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.18&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.18"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_19"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_19"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 12:00</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 12:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">19 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.19">38444.19</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12#a38444_18" target="_self">38444.18</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Now you understand <span class="emoticon e_lefthug" title="(hugleft)"><span class="e__">(hugleft)</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.19&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.19"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_20"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_20"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 12:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 12:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">20 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.20">38444.20</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12#a38444_18" target="_self">38444.18</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>Depends where you live.</p> <p> </p> <p>I live in a safe Labour seat. At the last election it was a new Labour candidate and she increased Labour's majority by a thousand, to 7,000-odd.</p> <p> </p> <p>This is why I didn't vote. What is the fucking point.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.20&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.20"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a38444_21"></a><div class="message" id="message_38444_21"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time"> 4 May 2011 12:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 May 2011 13:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">21 of 115</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.21">38444.21</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=38444.12#a38444_20" target="_self">38444.20</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I meant on the AV bit.<br /> <br /> Although it's a similar position - Conservatives have more than Labour and LibDems combined for both the last elections, and there's only two others - UKIP ( <span class="emoticon e_horror" title=":&"><span class="e__">:&</span></span> ) and Green.<br /> <br /> Unless enough Tories were upset by the forest sell-off to all vote green, there's no hope of anything changing here.<br /> <br /> But if it might make things better elsewhere I'd still pop over and vote. Currently sems like that'd be wasted effort though. <span class="emoticon e_sad" title=":("><span class="e__">:(</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=38444.21&return_msg=38444.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="38444.21"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="38444.22" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>