War & Politicsobama's speech

 

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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
41193.9 In reply to 41193.8 
quote: X3N0PH0N
As Nigel, I don't really follow American politics, except ...

Fixed that missing comma for you Andrew. I never follow merkin politics, largely because, although they affect us, we have no influence over the votes of retards. Chads, anyone?

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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.10 In reply to 41193.7 
Quote: 
  There might be some who disagree with you there.

They are getting harder to find, just like when Clinton was on the ropes -the deserters are many and far away.
Quote: 

But I cannot say I follow US politics enough to have an opinion.

I thought he was so highly regarded over there, early on? Guess the bloom fell off the rose quickly.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
41193.11 In reply to 41193.8 
Quote: 
when they're doing something *particularly* stupid.

Do you judge the above with your own Parliament in mind as an example, or what is it you base "particularly stupid" on? Not that there haven't been many stupid things done, but our viewpoints on that might be widely divergent. What was something done you felt particularly stupid.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.12 In reply to 41193.9 
If you don't follow American politics, what do you think you know about chads?
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.13 In reply to 41193.11 
More by historical American foreign and domestic policy/practise.

The Ferguson stuff was above the baseline, for example.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.14 In reply to 41193.11 
(The most pressingly stupid thing the US does currently, to my mind, is incarcerating a far greater proportion (by like 3x) of its people than any other comparable western democratic state. And imprisoning a statistically indefensible proportion of its non-white citizenry, often with longer sentences than whites get etc. etc.. If people started caring about that and that became a news story then I'd certainly be interested)
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.15 In reply to 41193.10 
quote: fixrman

I thought he was so highly regarded over there, early on? Guess the bloom fell off the rose quickly.

You're assuming that I ever regarded him. I can only speak for me, there may be millions out here who worship the ground he walks on; but I'm not one, nor have I ever been.

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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.16 In reply to 41193.12 
quote: fixrman
If you don't follow American politics, what do you think you know about chads?

My understanding is that's how the retards in Florida voted Geedubbya in.

Clarification: the position of most powerful leader in the West was donated to a buffoon on the basis that Floridians couldn't properly punch a hole in paper. At least that how (I recall) it was told at the time.

But that's the problem with democracy. Most of the time it's swung by bottom feeders who should just be doped up to the eyeballs and stuck in front of lobotomy TV rather than being allowed to do something vaguely responsible like vote. Or, worse, socialists.

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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
41193.17 In reply to 41193.13 
Ferguson is not a good example of American political practice, it is a law enforcement issue. It is an example of nothing really until the whole story is revealed. I live a lot closer and have followed some of it. We are not getting the full story by any measure and neither are you.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
41193.18 In reply to 41193.14 
Well, first off we are not a democratic state, we are a Federal presidential Constitutional Republic comprised of 50 states, but you are not alone in making that mistake. Most of America does. Although we are moving more and more to Democracy, that is not our political model.

What country are you comparing the U.S. to? Not that I don't disagree with your assessment of our rates of imprisonment for blacks (I didn't think you meant any other minority) I'd like to know the comparison then I will give some opinion on why I think you are right on the imprisonment bit.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.19 In reply to 41193.16 
Florida was a debacle as far as the voting goes, but point in fact that whole hanging chad/miscast vote bit had happened before(1996, 14,000 votes). If people had just taken a few seconds more to actually look at the ballot, they'd have voted properly. They also could have asked for a new ballot before leaving the voting boot. It was however a poorly designed ballot.

Adding to the maddening controversy was the fact that a Democrat, Theresa LePore,  designed the ballot and it was approved by both sides.
 
Quote: 
But that's the problem with democracy. Most of the time it's swung by bottom feeders who should just be doped up to the eyeballs and stuck in front of lobotomy TV rather than being allowed to do something vaguely responsible like vote. Or, worse, socialists.
Are you including the population of Merry Olde England in that assessment, or is that something you reserve solely for Americans. Actually, Canada and Britain are considered more democratic than the U.S. is. We vote for a president, but a president is not necessarily elected by popular vote, it is decided by Electoral votes. So a guy like obama, who exploited inherent weaknesses in that system of election by concentrating on population centers to gain electoral votes, gets in power.
 
Quote: 
the position of most powerful leader in the West was donated to a buffoon

As opposed to the buffoon in there now? Was there ever a POTUS you liked?

The alternative of course is to not vote which is ridiculous in my opinion, worse even than uninformed voting.
 

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.20 In reply to 41193.19 
quote: fixrman
 
Are you including the population of Merry Olde England in that assessment, or is that something you reserve solely for Americans. Actually, Canada and Britain are considered more democratic than the U.S. is. We vote for a president, but a president is not necessarily elected by popular vote, it is decided by Electoral votes. So a guy like obama, who exploited inherent weaknesses in that system of election by concentrating on population centers to gain electoral votes, gets in power.
 
Quote: 
the position of most powerful leader in the West was donated to a buffoon

As opposed to the buffoon in there now? Was there ever a POTUS you liked?

I was particularly thinking of the population of Merrie Olde England (and its nearest neighbours).

POTUS that I liked? I guess Abe was pretty decent. Clinton...but she's not been elected yet.

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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.21 In reply to 41193.17 
The crazy structure of law enforcement is a political issue as is the militarisation of the police. But I was more referring to the ineptitude with which the political class responded to the situation (or in Obama's case singularly failed to, which is fucking weird for a second term president for whom the whole Ferguson thing must touch on issues of importance).

Prison stuff: You're not a direct democracy of course, but you are a representative democracy, same as we are (we're a constitutional monarchy).

Numbers here. The US figure (707 per 100k) excludes lots of classes of prisoners which are included in other countries' figures and still manages to dwarf the numbers for any comparable country. England and Wales are on 148. The highest western democracy with no special circumstances besides the US (based on a quick scan, I may have missed sommat) is New Zealand on 183.

The causes of this problem are of course manifold. A few obvious ones being disenfrranchisement of minorities (it's not just blacks that are overrepresented in prisons, also hispanics), gun laws, popularity of 'tough on crime' stances with electorates, the fact that minorities are less likely to vote.

But I think the real clincher is the fact that many of your prisons are run as businesses and those businesses are owned, ultimately, by politicians, lawmakers and those with lobbying influence.

It's a humanitarian crime that dwarfs anything China, Russia or NK are up to and yet it goes largely uncommented upon.
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
41193.22 In reply to 41193.21 
quote: X3N0PH0N
the fact that minorities are less likely to vote.

What's stopping them?

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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.23 In reply to 41193.22 
They're all in prison?

But seriously, nothing will be stopping them. Just I imagine feeling disenfranchised is the reason they don't.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.24 In reply to 41193.22 
What Ant said.
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
41193.25 In reply to 41193.23 
Fair point. But the can hardly complain when they're not represented, can they?

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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.26 In reply to 41193.25 
I guess it then comes down to saying that none of the options represent them.

Which sends you to the next option, stand yourself then? I can only imagine that is incredibly difficult (read: impossible) because of the prohibitively high cost of entering US politics.
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 From:  fixrman   
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)     
41193.27 In reply to 41193.20 
Quote: 
Clinton...but she's not been elected yet.

Now that's comedy. Basically the fact you like Clinton shows that you are not well informed at all about American politics. We already had one failed experiment, the America people don't need to suffer under another one. The PIAPS is probably more corrupt than Johnson was and is morally bankrupt. Perhaps look into her past before you make a judgement on her. The fact that she is female should not make a difference to you, at least in the sense of making historical strides. A female president is not necessarily a Bad Thing for America, except for that female. I am not sure she even is a woman.
 

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  fixrman      
41193.28 In reply to 41193.27 
Hillary Clinton's a nasty piece of work, always has been.

----
"Ninety percent of Americans use the Internet. The other ten percent use the banjo."
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