War & PoliticsGeneral Election 2019

 

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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42505.24 In reply to 42505.20 
> Obviously the minimum unit pricing thing is an aberration.

Yeah, because why the fuck should anyone want to save lives? :|

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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
42505.25 In reply to 42505.24 
It was a response to an earlier remark by kos. I have no objection to the policy and for clarity I don't really think its an aberration.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42505.26 In reply to 42505.23 
I think the tories and libdems both took a shellacking from the evening's fiasco, vote-wise. I expect boris will play it safe for the remainder of the campaign (appearing only before friendly shills in the media) and jo will... quietly fade away.
“The insult of the year is about to become a TV show”
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 From:  Dave!!  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
42505.27 In reply to 42505.24 
To be honest, I don't think the minimum pricing thing will make a whole lot of difference, plus it tends to penalise those on lower incomes the most. Some EU countries with the highest alcohol prices (ie, Finland) have high levels of alcohol consumption, yet go to Germany and despite the cheap alcohol, consumption is a lot lower in general. I don't have a problem with trying to reduce alcohol consumption, but I do feel that minimum pricing is not really the solution, an educational approach would be more effective (albeit more difficult).

Personally though, I'll be voting SNP - mainly as it is a 2-horse race in my constituency between SNP and the Tories.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  Dave!!     
42505.28 In reply to 42505.27 

> it tends to penalise those on lower incomes the most.

Yes, and I'm generally opposed to taxing the poor, but when the studies on alcohol consistently show greater harm to less well off people, a specifically targetted deterrant is worth considering.

 

> Some EU countries with the highest alcohol prices (ie, Finland) have high levels of alcohol consumption, yet go to Germany and despite the cheap alcohol, consumption is a lot lower in general.

Obviously price isn't the only factor, however your claim there does not match WHO statistics:

Three year averages between 2009..2011 and 2015..2017 show Germany's alcohol consumption increasing from 12.9 to 13.4 litres per capita.

In the same time period, Finland's consumption decreased from 12.6 to 10.7 litres per capita.

 

> I do feel that minimum pricing is not really the solution, an educational approach would be more effective (albeit more difficult)

I'm always in favour of education, but when it's not working then it needs to be combined with other approaches.

Russia's average consumption peaked in 2003 at over 20 litres per capita. That was the year Russia introduced minimum unit pricing (along with other measures), and their consumption rates have been falling since then. For the same two periods mentioned above they went from 15.8 (2009..2011) to 11.7 (2015..2017).

Since 2003, life expectancy in Russia has increased by ten years.

 

> I don't think the minimum pricing thing will make a whole lot of difference

I don't expect Scotland's results to mirror Russia, but the evidence I've seen definitely suggests MUP is a significant part of the solution.


 

> Personally though, I'll be voting SNP - mainly as it is a 2-horse race in my constituency between SNP and the Tories.

It's still a one horse race here. :(

Though their margin was significantly reduced last time, so perhaps there's an outside chance of that changing...

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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
42505.29 In reply to 42505.28 
Quote: 
Russia's average consumption peaked in 2003 at over 20 litres per capita

And that was vodka!

“The insult of the year is about to become a TV show”
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.30 In reply to 42505.29 
Those values are for the alcohol content - in 2003 about 2/3rds was vodka (and other spirits) and a quarter was beer.

If we assume beer to be ~5% and vodka ~40%, that means about 100 litres of beer and "only" 33 of vodka.

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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
42505.31 In reply to 42505.30 
Egad.
“The insult of the year is about to become a TV show”
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
42505.32 In reply to 42505.30 
Apropos not very much, I've always loved the fact that 'proof' was the extent to which spirits impeded the ignition of gunpowder. Imagine all those experiments gone wrong with Poitín.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  ALL
42505.33 
Boy on floor gaffe = hung parliament territory?
“California cop allegedly caught on his body camera fondling corpse”
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.34 In reply to 42505.33 
Nope. Tory majority still. No one gives a fuck unfortunately.
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.35 In reply to 42505.33 
I agree with Ant, unfortunately. The Tories won some time ago by pressing home the myth that they will make Brexit go away. Labour's more rational approach hasn't the same strength.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  Manthorp     
42505.36 In reply to 42505.35 
The media pile-on hasn't helped, has it.
“California cop allegedly caught on his body camera fondling corpse”
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 From:  Matt  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
42505.37 In reply to 42505.34 
Not that they only don't give a fuck, they are also claiming it is fake despite the hospital already apologising for the mistreatment of the boy.

doohicky

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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.38 In reply to 42505.36 
The media pile-on has to be experienced to be believed. BBC News has given up all pretence of impartiality (although obviously they do actually pretend to be impartial) and whenever possible they lead on almost unchallenged anti-labour stories. Often these are padded out with a piece-to-camera by Laura Kuenssberg whose journalism consists mainly of incisive statements such as 'there is no doubt that...' followed by some contentious claim that Corbyn is, for instance, a liability to Labour's electoral chances. Her evidence is commonly that 'this is what one hears on the doorsteps...' which meaningless anecdotal evidence is exactly what Tory politicians have told her - or she has cleverly thought up with her own brain. This is an almost verbatim account of what she said on the BBC prime 6 o'clock news today.

It's why I prefer alternative news sources in the UK. Channel 4 is a commercial channel but was established with public funding and has a charter that includes due-impartiality in news reportage. It is far better than the BBC but has recently been threatened by the Tory Party. They held a leaders debate on the environment that Johnson and Farage wouldn't attend. Channel 4 empty-seated them with melting ice-sculptures. I even prefer sources like Sky News, because at least they aren't pretending to be even handed.  
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  Matt     
42505.39 In reply to 42505.37 
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/12/10/trolls-sock-puppets-and-useful-idiots-an-anatomy-of-an-election-disinformation-campaign/
 
Quote: 
The failure to realise that hiding your face does not make you invisible, or that stealing a reporter’s phone does not make the report go away, suggests that – under pressure – the leader of the Conservative Party has the social cognitive abilities of a four-year-old.
“California cop allegedly caught on his body camera fondling corpse”
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.40 In reply to 42505.39 
And the sad thing is that it probably won't make a damn bit of difference. (Nice article btw).

Stupidity, lies, dirty tricks and exploitation have been the mechanics of power since forever, but the management of this has been a particular skill of the Labour party in the C20th and C21st starting with Jim Callaghan and finding its champion in Neil Kinnock. Whether things would have changed with John Smith is a moot point, but they certainly didn't with Tony Blair. I'm afraid it's quite understandable if Boris Johnson follows the parallel evolution of Trumpism. It's too depressing to think about. 

If you ever want to find out about how Kinnock set about stamping out any success left wing politics might have had in modern government in the UK, try Googling Lol Duffy and the tragedy that ended with Angela Eagle becoming a high flyer in the party.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.41 In reply to 42505.39 
So you're saying Boris Johnson is one of those people who perform better under pressure...
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)     
42505.42 In reply to 42505.36 
No, it really hasn't. The BBC's lead political correspondent, Laura Kuenssberg, in particular, has been openly partisan. Whilst it may serve her short term interests, in the long term, it may come bite her in the bum.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  Matt     
42505.43 In reply to 42505.37 
My twitter handle made the national news in that particular scrum, when a friend - passing on the shit that was going down on FB - was accused of being a right wing sock puppet.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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