War & PoliticsBrexit deal nigh or nyet?

  

Press Ctrl+Enter to quickly submit your post
Quick Reply  
 
 
  
 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    14 Mar 2019 14:30 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      75 of 200 
42264.75 In reply to 42264.74 
The CBC here are performing a somewhat similar function, but perhaps with more subtlety ATM given the situation is less dire... my theory is they (publicly/gummint funded new organizations) are simply hedging their bets against the day a right-wing (or more extreme right-wing) government is in power, with the traditional howls (fueled by media-owning patrons) to defund socialist projects such as public television et al.

TLDR; They are running scared.
“I believe real life and the internet differ.”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  milko   14 Mar 2019 20:58 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       76 of 200 
42264.76 In reply to 42264.75 
yeah, here the BBC is (or was?) under severe threat of being defunded to the point of shutdown by any Conservative government. It seems to have made them afraid to present much in the way of opposing views, and a suspicious amount of their political journos either have second jobs or move on to their next jobs in conservative/right wing political orgs. That plus a bizarre mishandling of 'balance' making them feel the need to put one climate change denier on air for every story about how fucked the planet is... well, grr. It's a shame.

Pretty much all of the rest of the press is just owned and operated by rich people with everything to lose if a vaguely socialist Labour ever gets into power, so naturally they fight it and smear all the way.
milko
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  ANT_THOMAS   15 Mar 2019 07:21 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      77 of 200 
42264.77 In reply to 42264.74 
Not much to say to that apart from I agree, and that Andrew Neil is a cunt.

As Milko mentioned, along with the bias, I hate him even more because of his climate change denial. That really really fucks me off.
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   15 Mar 2019 16:54 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      78 of 200 
42264.78 In reply to 42264.77 
He is, isn't he. And yeah, the climate change denial thing disgusts me. I really don't believe he's stupid enough to actually believe that nearly every climate scientist in the world is wrong and Breitbart is right. My conclusion is that he's actually lying because he doesn't give a fuck about the future and instinctively supports big business and its short-term greed.

I'm kind of puzzled by people like Andrew Neil. He's obviously intelligent. I mean he's not just a product of the entitlement system like Johnson or Rees Mogg, or intellectually limited like Mark Francois, so he must have chosen to be a bad person. And I assume he's quite comfortable with life, knowing that he's an awful human being. Weird.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    18 Mar 2019 18:27 
 To:  ALL 79 of 200 
42264.79 
Bercow just tossed a spanner into it.
“Michael Jackson fan groups to sue accusers for ‘sullying his memory’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  ANT_THOMAS   19 Mar 2019 15:15 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       80 of 200 
42264.80 In reply to 42264.79 
Saw that mentioned around a week ago, and it does technically make perfect sense.

Though apparently if a majority of MPs want to vote on it again they can. So May would need to find a majority to enable a vote, then get a majority to vote for her WA, who have previously massively voted against it.

Messy as per.
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    19 Mar 2019 15:22 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      81 of 200 
42264.81 In reply to 42264.80 
"Saw that mentioned around a week ago"

Yeah, I remember that, which is why I'm amazed no one saw this coming.

Alleged quote from cabinet meeting this am: “Where’s the strategy. It feels like the last days of Rome.”
“Michael Jackson fan groups to sue accusers for ‘sullying his memory’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   20 Mar 2019 11:19 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       82 of 200 
42264.82 In reply to 42264.81 
Well, the strategy is very obvious. Theresa May decided what the UK side would ask for in the negotiations. It was a package that ruled out what she felt her party's right wing wouldn't like, but included support for the Good Friday agreement. She involved nobody in formulating this negotiating position outside of a small group of right wing leave supporters, although the fact that these all walked away from the process, suggests that it was mainly down to her. She then spent two years (I'll say that again) she then spent TWO YEARS getting representatives of 27 separate countries to come to an agreement closely tailored to her package of requirements. 

The strategy simply involves stubbornly insisting that the UK parliament has no role other than to vote for or against this particular package [because she has no intention of allowing any input to discussion of how the UK should leave other than her own] with the threat that if it is refused the UK will get no exit deal or else we will revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

An alternative package that includes membership of a (or the) EU Customs Union and/or the EU Common Market without membership of the EU and it's political institutions and other financial institutions has never even been discussed by Parliament or raised with the EU negotiators. This would be hated by the Tory right wing that has a set of values honed on the playing fields of Eton and Harrow and in the drinking clubs of Oxford and Cambridge, or in the case of some such as Mark Francois, a fantasy England where World War 2 never ended. May's strategy here is to ignore the possibility that alternatives even exist.

Quite understandably, having spent 2 years discussing May's package deal, the EU doesn't want to discuss this any more. I have no idea how they might react to starting again from an entirely different place although some politicians who have raised the possibility with EU negotiators say that they might be sympathetic -  and certainly this would be closer to a model that the EU is used to with e.g. Norway. There is almost certainly a majority in the UK Parliament for this sort of arrangement, probably a substantial majority, but unfortunately the Tory rank and file seldom show the level of courage required to make this happen. And with May currently stuck on the view that her way is the only way and consequently seeking only a short delay to Article 50, probably no time.

By the way, Bercow's ruling wasn't just the resurrection of some ancient precedent. He was ruling in line with the way parliamentary business is done every day. If a bill is voted down then it doesn't get voted on again in the same parliamentary session without a substantial change. Those who don't like the ruling are trying to make it sound like one of those ancient laws like it's illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing armour.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   20 Mar 2019 13:04 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      83 of 200 
42264.83 In reply to 42264.82 
Watching Prime Minister's questions just now, and May's answers are 100% genuine 1984 stuff. Apparently Parliament has fully discussed and rejected all alternative options to her proposals. 
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  Manthorp   20 Mar 2019 15:47 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      84 of 200 
42264.84 In reply to 42264.83 
I think that the EU may have just shot her fox.

If France holds to the position they've just adopted - that they won't accede to the short delay unless she can provide evidence beforehand that she'll deliver a result - then she has a handful of days (maybe just three) to bribe and cajole a majority for her 'deal', or she's obliged to go cap-in-hand to the EU for the long delay. Which, of course, makes Remain more likely. Interesting times.
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    20 Mar 2019 19:28 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      85 of 200 
42264.85 In reply to 42264.82 
"the strategy is very obvious"

“Michael Jackson fan groups to sue accusers for ‘sullying his memory’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   21 Mar 2019 10:02 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       86 of 200 
42264.86 In reply to 42264.85 
Indeed!
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   21 Mar 2019 10:20 
 To:  Manthorp      87 of 200 
42264.87 In reply to 42264.84 
Watched her "speech". I would have laughed if I wasn't so worried about my pension. It was like Endora Stephens from Bewitched trying out hypnosis for the first time: "You're feeling sleepy, you're tired of Brexit, your eyes are closing, I'm on your side, you want my deal, MPs are to blame, you will hear only my voice..."
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
+1/1
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   21 Mar 2019 12:06 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      88 of 200 
42264.88 In reply to 42264.87 
Hah! Somebody else with a similar thought.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
+1/1
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    21 Mar 2019 12:12 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      89 of 200 
42264.89 In reply to 42264.88 
 :'-D 
“Reactions of shock to … are starting to populate Twitter.’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  ANT_THOMAS   21 Mar 2019 13:20 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      90 of 200 
42264.90 In reply to 42264.87 
In any normal circumstances that speech would have been the setup for a resignation, not with May.
+1/1
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    21 Mar 2019 13:39 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      91 of 200 
42264.91 In reply to 42264.90 
She really does not seem to either grasp or care (not sure which) that after a hard brexit and all the ensuing disasters, she will be the most reviled PM in history. Apologies to Neville, Maggie, and Tony.
“Reactions of shock to … are starting to populate Twitter.’”
+1/1
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   21 Mar 2019 15:34 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       92 of 200 
42264.92 In reply to 42264.91 
You missed Cameron from that list. He reintroduced entitlement as a primary qualification for government, imposed a savage austerity on the UK that saw an unprecedented rise in rough-sleeping and food banks, and vastly accelerated the flow of wealth upwards to the richest. Then, scared of his party's right-wing and constantly overshadowed by his Bullingdon Club sibling, Boris Johnson, he called the referendum, made a pitiful half-arsed attempt to lead the Remain campaign, lost, and then fucked off as though it had nothing to do with him. The little shit has even suggested, recently, that he still has something to "offer" in government. 

But yes, as Ant suggests, a resignation would be long overdue for anybody with any sense of shame. Unfortunately it's beginning to look as though she's determined to persist in order to ensure that the UK leaves the EU without a deal i.e. to carry out her threat. After meeting her yesterday, Anna Soubry said that she seemed delusional "quite seriously". 
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    21 Mar 2019 15:38 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      93 of 200 
42264.93 In reply to 42264.92 
She certainly looks mentally unfit, by some combination of (no doubt prescription) drug abuse and exhaustion.
“Reactions of shock to … are starting to populate Twitter.’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    21 Mar 2019 18:38 
 To:  ALL 94 of 200 
42264.94 
Ooh, they done busted out the Harmy*.



*(this is how a Québécoise friend pronounced it many moons ago)
“Reactions of shock to … are starting to populate Twitter.’”
0/0
 Reply   Quote More 

Reply to All  
 

1–20  21–40  41–60  61–80  81–100  …  181–200

Rate my interest:

Adjust text size : Smaller 10 Larger

Beehive Forum 1.5.2 |  FAQ |  Docs |  Support |  Donate! ©2002 - 2025 Project Beehive Forum

Forum Stats