War & PoliticsBrexit deal nigh or nyet?

  

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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    14 Nov 2018 13:45 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      10 of 200 
42264.10 In reply to 42264.9 
Quote: 
Breaking down the old antagonisms between nations by education and exposure

That would be true except: education has been steadily degraded to forms of indoctrination and vocational training -- not least in self-styled Western 'democracies'.
“A Chinese-Built Replica of the Titanic Will Set Sail From Dubai”
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   14 Nov 2018 16:28 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       11 of 200 
42264.11 In reply to 42264.10 
I didn't mean just school education, although properly done this can help. I meant education in a broader sense to include sources of information and, of course, the various media outlets treating people and customs that are different as different, but not weird, perverse, evil etc.* (some hope). I do agree that school education is constantly under attack from politicians who want their views and values promoted, or by businesses that want schools and universities to be labour-feeds. Then there are the other type of politico/economists who feel that education can always be done cheaper if only you do that magic bit of reorganisation that will make it somehow - um - cheaper.





*unless they are - FGM for instance.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    14 Nov 2018 18:19 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      12 of 200 
42264.12 In reply to 42264.11 
Yeah I would hope that would work. The information is already out there, but the people who need to read it don't want to. I dunno how you deal with that.
“A Chinese-Built Replica of the Titanic Will Set Sail From Dubai”
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   14 Nov 2018 20:07 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       13 of 200 
42264.13 In reply to 42264.12 
The Greeks and their bloody democracy have got a lot to answer for.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   14 Nov 2018 22:45 
 To:  Manthorp      14 of 200 
42264.14 In reply to 42264.7 
> so the immigration card can't be played to the same effect as it was first time round.

///LOL!!///
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    14 Nov 2018 23:21 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      15 of 200 
42264.15 In reply to 42264.13 
Slaves something something
“A Chinese-Built Replica of the Titanic Will Set Sail From Dubai”
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 From:  Manthorp   15 Nov 2018 00:09 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      16 of 200 
42264.16 In reply to 42264.14 
Aye, maybe so. Fucking hope not, though. Otherwise, what's the point of the kicking against the pricks we've done?
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    15 Nov 2018 15:13 
 To:  ALL 17 of 200 
42264.17 
"How to pull voters back from the far-right brink? Look to Germany"

Article:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-how-to-pull-voters-back-from-the-far-right-brink-look-to-germany/
“A Chinese-Built Replica of the Titanic Will Set Sail From Dubai”
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   17 Nov 2018 23:09 
 To:  Manthorp      18 of 200 
42264.18 In reply to 42264.16 
Sometimes the only point is that frustration and rage need an outlet, though perhaps it can also serve as a lesson in what doesn't work.
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    15 Jan 2019 17:18 
 To:  ALL 19 of 200 
42264.19 
Breakshit hitting the fan...

Poll:

Is teh

- watching with bated breath?

- watching with baited bear trap?

- tuning it out?
“If there is a concrete wall in front of you, go through it” – Donald Trump, 2004
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   15 Jan 2019 19:49 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       20 of 200 
42264.20 In reply to 42264.19 
Massive defeat. Vote of no confidence tomorrow.
Messy.
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    15 Jan 2019 19:51 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      21 of 200 
42264.21 In reply to 42264.20 
Pretty much according to script.  :-&
“If there is a concrete wall in front of you, go through it” – Donald Trump, 2004
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 From:  koswix   15 Jan 2019 20:57 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      22 of 200 
42264.22 In reply to 42264.20 
In, out, shake it all about brexit?

Quite possible that we're going to sleepwalk right into a No Deal brexit. She'll survive the confidence vote tomorrow (Tories aren't going to vote against her and risk getting Corbyn, DUP have initially signalled they'll support her), EU aren't going to shift on the offer that's on the table so we're basically fucked on that front.

The only reasonable way out of this that I can see is May calling a second referendum. Everyone (well, a decent majority at least) agrees that No Deal is not a viable option, so perhaps a referendum on May's Deal or Remain? Really don't know where the fuck this is going to end.

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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 From:  milko   15 Jan 2019 21:28 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       23 of 200 
42264.23 In reply to 42264.19 
watching it like a carcrash I think.

I wonder what awful turn of events will happen next. There's still a tiny tiny sliver of hope that someone will find a way to put it into the "we tried but it's not possible without fucking everybody over" bin successfully, ideally with a Corbyn government at the end of that somehow. Don't know how though!
milko
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   15 Jan 2019 21:53 
 To:  koswix      24 of 200 
42264.24 In reply to 42264.22 
I spent a year and a half working on the millennium bug and then, a few years later, I worked for the main contractor for the rewrite of the Customs and Excise IT systems including the huge SAP based systems that run the UK's tax relationship with the EU. 

I watched systems fail over and over using simple time-shifting simulations, so I know the millennium bug was a real problem that would have been a global disaster if billions of pounds and dollars had not been spent all over the world putting it right. When Jacob and Boris dismiss it as an illusion, I seriously doubt their grasp of the issues and maturity as decision makers.

I know that it took over 15 years before the Customs and Excise IT systems even felt like they could do the job and I'm well aware that a nudge can cause queues at ports, because we SAW queues at ports when tiny things went wrong. And that was with the 'friction-less'  EU. The idea that these systems can be supplanted at the drop of a hat with some magical technological solution is beyond laughable even if Boris and Jacob know all about IT having successfully installed apps on their iPhones loads of times.

The whole thing is too depressing for words.

Also, the government sneaked through a major change to pensions that will make the poorest married couples significantly poorer (by £thousands) if only one is of pensionable age, knowing that the issue would be overshadowed by the Brexit vote. I feel ashamed to breathe the same air sometimes.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  koswix   15 Jan 2019 21:56 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      25 of 200 
42264.25 In reply to 42264.24 
I'd say it's time for a revolution, but I'm just so busy at the moment.

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   15 Jan 2019 21:57 
 To:  koswix      26 of 200 
42264.26 In reply to 42264.25 
It's a bitch, isn't it?
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   15 Jan 2019 22:01 
 To:  milko      27 of 200 
42264.27 In reply to 42264.23 
Is your preference for a Corbyn government just that it will mean no more Tories? Or do you specifically want a Corbyn Labour government over say an alternative leader Labour government?
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 From:  Manthorp   16 Jan 2019 07:06 
 To:  ALL 28 of 200 
42264.28 
The no confidence vote will fail because there's not a single Tory or DUP MP who will support it.  May will, nominally, consult with the other party leaders, but has clearly set out that she won't support a customs union, which is the minimum that Labour would accept to support her (they'd expect some additional workers' protections too, but those could be finessed). So on Monday she'll return to parliament with a deal that's virtually identical to yesterday's and it'll be comprehensively rejected again.

At that point, she'll propose an extension to Article 50 and the EU will accept. May will probably start to pursue a Norway+ model, pressured by Labour to go for a harder customs union. The EU *might* soften their position a bit, recognising that all the above makes a hard Brexit a genuine possibility.

I am increasingly convinced that the Labour shadow cabinet won't support a second referendum under any circumstances.  It's just possible that an extension to Article 50 and the intransigence of the Tory & Labour executives will precipitate the formation of a new, centrist pro-Remain party, but I wouldn't be betting my last tenner on it.
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    16 Jan 2019 10:09 
 To:  koswix      29 of 200 
42264.29 In reply to 42264.25 
"The revolution starts after the next pint."
“I’m old, sedentary and slouch a lot – will standing up at my desk … um, never mind.”
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