Music, Film, TV & BooksJonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell (2015)

  

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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   11 Apr 2023 17:50 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       19 of 31 
42198.19 In reply to 42198.18 
There's plenty I'd agree with him on in politics, but he's one of a small number of actors, comedians, media figures on the right of the British labour party who not only dislike the left of the party (the FAR left or HARD left as they usually refer to them) but have actively attempted to disown, lie about, expel and otherwise deny them any say in a party that historically grew from the left. It's a long and painful story, and not one I'll bore you with. Suffice it to say that within certain sectors of the party, including probably a majority of the staff and MPs (which is one reason Corbyn had such a nightmare keeping the organisation running) the left are good for delivering leaflets, doing the shitty door-to-door stuff at elections, and paying subscriptions. If they want more they can just fuck off.

Edit: also, that's a Guardian interview. They're hardly going to give him a hard time in an interview, having worked hard as dedicated fellow anti-Corbynists while he led the party.

He May Be Your Dog But He's Wearing My Collar
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    11 Apr 2023 22:34 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      20 of 31 
42198.20 In reply to 42198.19 
As a compleat outsider, I can only say it looks like that side of the party consider Corbyn and his ilk inimical to their ascension, because The Man would never allow those dirty pinkos near power.
"Distant, Lonely Galaxy is Isolated Because it Annihilated Its Neighbors"
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   12 Apr 2023 09:19 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       21 of 31 
42198.21 In reply to 42198.20 
The MAN came very close to conceding power in the 2017 UK general election. UK elections, like many around the world I suppose, are very complex to read, but a Corbyn led labour party wiped out the conservative majority leaving them to rely on a handful of votes from the utra-conservative Democratic Unionsist Party of Northern Ireland to continue ruling. This was done in the face of every media outlet in the UK, including the supposedly soft-left/liberal Guardian (and the BBC) attacking Corbyn on a daily basis. The only public broadcast service that was remotely neutral, was Channel 4, which has subsequently come under attack from the conservative party.

What the conservative party, the right wing of labour, and the broadcast, published and online media in the UK (echoing what is happening around the western world) have managed to do, is shift the political tone of public debate to the right. Quite moderate liberal views are now cast as somehow extreme leftism, verging on Trotskyite, whereas quite radical right wing views on reduction of social provision are seen as necessary, normal and moderate.

 

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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    12 Apr 2023 15:50 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      22 of 31 
42198.22 In reply to 42198.21 
What's most remarkable is that none of Corbyn's proposed policies came anywhere near the real destruction of capital brought on by Brexit, which proceeded without so much as a whimper until too late to do anything about it.
"Distant, Lonely Galaxy is Isolated Because it Annihilated Its Neighbors"
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   12 Apr 2023 20:00 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       23 of 31 
42198.23 In reply to 42198.22 
Well, no. Corbyn's manifesto was built on the post-war traditions established by Clement Atlee. It never envisaged the destruction of capital.

I think many people misunderstand the conservative party. Since their return to power under Cameron, they have essentially abandoned government as such. Things keep running because that's what they do, but any actual change and restructuring hasn't been to improve things, it's been in the service of a different aim, enabling the transfer of wealth from the engine of wealth creation (the vast majority of working, investing, saving, spending citizens) to a tiny minority of increasing wealthy conservative fellow-travellers. At the same time, risk is passed back to the people and away from the wealthy. Hence risk-taking banks and financial institutions don't fail; their losses, usually caused by excessive profit-taking and decisions made purely on the basis that they will improve dividends, are paid for by that same engine of wealth in the form of bail-outs: the movement of wealth from the poor to the rich.

The tory government isn't bad at economic management. They actually mean it to work this way.

Yes, that's a ridiculously crude summary of what the government is up to, and obviously individual ministers will, at times, work at doing things they genuinely believe are a part of running a ministry and the nation, but I think on the whole it's correct.

He May Be Your Dog But He's Wearing My Collar
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    13 Apr 2023 13:47 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      24 of 31 
42198.24 In reply to 42198.23 
This is an excellent summation. It didn't matter (and still doesn't) what Corbyn's manifesto stated, that is how it was sold by a panoply of panicked enemies in a full-court press, which only concluded with him being barred from running.

If he was younger and fitter, perhaps some kind of comeback would be in the cards. Hard to say who his successor might be, or their prospects.
"Distant, Lonely Galaxy is Isolated Because it Annihilated Its Neighbors"
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 From:  milko   17 Apr 2023 09:48 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       25 of 31 
42198.25 In reply to 42198.24 
There's still no obvious successor and the Labour right has properly salted the earth (is still doing it, really) as far as doing it again through that party. I think it'll be another decade or two minimum, sadly, before we get another unlikely shot at it.
 
milko
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    17 Apr 2023 16:16 
 To:  milko      26 of 31 
42198.26 In reply to 42198.25 
Is Raynor the last Corbynite in Parliament?
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 From:  milko   17 Apr 2023 16:59 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       27 of 31 
42198.27 In reply to 42198.26 
No, I think there are others (eg Zarah Sultana who I admire a lot); frankly some who are a bit more Corbyn-leaning than Rayner whom I don't entirely trust since she's managed to avoid being sidelined in the current administration. At the very least, she's got a talent to avoid the backstabbing! But I don't see Rayner leading the left back into the fold at all.

They're all being forced out as much/as quickly as possible, generally, by whatever means possible. All of the purge culty stuff that these people aimed at Corbyn (but never actually happened) is being done to the left now, it's depressingly predictable. I quit my membership about 2 years ago but the useless fuckers still email me invites to meetings and stuff.
 
milko
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   17 Apr 2023 17:10 
 To:  milko      28 of 31 
42198.28 In reply to 42198.27 
'tis sad. My local party was pretty left wing and pro-Corbyn, but they've kept a low profile over the last couple of years, which is sensible. I'm still a member but I feel less and less a part of things. 

He May Be Your Dog But He's Wearing My Collar
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 From:  milko   18 Apr 2023 09:13 
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)      29 of 31 
42198.29 In reply to 42198.28 
with all the merry refugee demonising stuff (and plenty more besides), it got too "not in my name" to remain a member for me, though I know my CLP has some good people involved.
milko
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)    20 Apr 2023 15:12 
 To:  milko      30 of 31 
42198.30 In reply to 42198.29 
This seems to be happening in many countries simultaneously, perhaps for similar reasons. My own, working theory is twofold:

1) the billionaire class (oligarchs, if you will) is locking stuff down to thwart explosions of popular discontent (in developed countries), fuelled by climate change, mass migration, and concerted wealth-extraction efforts. We may be looking at minority rule / autocracy, like we've never known it.

2) "the left" has had many problems, many own goals, when there is no margin for error. This could be attributed to general human dumbness afflicting everyone of whatever political stripe, and also (perhaps) to infiltrators/fifth-columnists. Social media has been gasoline on this fire.
"Distant, Lonely Galaxy is Isolated Because it Annihilated Its Neighbors"
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   23 Apr 2023 09:38 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)       31 of 31 
42198.31 In reply to 42198.30 
Seems like a couple of plausible points there.

And yes, the left have more than their fair share of self-inflicted injuries. In the UK the Labour right-wing (or centre as they style themselves in this oddly shaped party) are more than happy to lose elections if it prevents a left-wing candidate from winning. In the 1987 general election, Labour MP Ken Fields urged voters in neighbouring Wallassey to vote Tory when it looked certain that a left-wing candidate, Lol Duffy would overturn a massive Tory majority. The Labour party actively conspired with local press to whip up a "Marxist Threat". Duffy still came only 279 votes from winning. Then there's the almost unbelievable onslaught against Corbyn, largely driven by the right of the Labour party again. Of course, around the world things have been much worse. If it wasn't so tragic and awful, one might even laugh in disbelief that during the Spanish Civil War, Stalinists on the Republican side were actually attacking and killing fighters on their own side because they were in the wrong factions. 

The right aren't exactly strangers to infighting either, but they have the plain sense to work together when the battle is actually in progress.

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