In/out/shake it all about

From:	Harry (HARRYN)	26 Jun 2016 23:31
To:	ALL	59 of 93

41766.59
It is a very interesting situation to watch. Of course, as I said, I will avoid expressing my opinion about if it is a good / bad decision to exit the EU, especially since it doesn't matter. A couple of observations from the far west side of the US (based on information from our perfectly unbiased news feeds of course) a) Good luck with things. I really mean this with the best of intentions. b) Usually these types of events have less impact than expected, because financial institutions hate instability, so they will pressure all of the governments involved into figuring it out. c) We have the exact same challenge of laws / taxes / debt being passed in California with just 50.1 % of a vote. It leads to many poor decisions. (again, I am not saying that Brexit is good / bad - really don't know). I just cannot understand how a law can be passed as meeting a "majority of votes" with less than 60%. That is just not a sufficient % to base a decision that affects peoples lives. 50.1 % might be enough to decide what type of wine or beer to order, but not for laws and taxes. d) The UK has already started on its path to be part of China by joining it's version of the IMF. This vote more or less seems to seal this fate, much to my dismay, as I am not a fan of China policies. e) At least here in the US, we didn't interpret the vote as being racist driven at all, rather that similar to here, a lot of people are being left behind by the economy, and the value of our own currency has fallen rather dramatically. Meet the $50 bill, its the new $20. In "constant dollars", most wages here have fallen.

+1/1

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From:	ANT_THOMAS	26 Jun 2016 23:43
To:	ALL	60 of 93

41766.60
Looks like any gains on the GBP/USD rate made later on Friday have already been lost. Throw in Labour imploding and we're looking at an interesting week/month/year. May as well add Boris saying it wasn't an overwhelming victory and that we will continue very much part of Europe (obviously geographically, but he clearly means politically and economically). The GBP/USD rate will have a big impact on my job, significant imports from China which are all done in USD. A

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	27 Jun 2016 00:45
To:	ANT_THOMAS	61 of 93

41766.61 In reply to 41766.60
I'm pretty confused by Boris' statement, but I'm guessing he got cold feet, and has no intention of carrying out what was voted for, assuming he'll be in a position to make that call. electric eels can leap out of water and shock you

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jun 2016 04:51
To:	ALL	62 of 93

41766.62
I was ambivalent about the EU vote and didn't vote. On the one hand I think the sooner we stop giving a shit about nation states and start thinking of ourselves as a planet the better. And the EU was (perhaps) a step towards that with free migration and federalising some aspects of government. On the other hand the EU is, politically, a neoliberal trading cartel, a haven for the tax-dodging wealthy and dodgy corporate activity and a strong proponent (to say the least) of austerity. It's largely failed (if it was ever an aim) in redistributing wealth (wealth gaps just keep getting bigger) or facilitating progressive policy and/or social justice, at least at a greater rate than baseline. It's difficult to disentangle because we don't know quite what our economy and laws would be like had we never been in the EU but I suspect that it did, generally, make things better (within it, that is, its treatment of external poor countries is another matter). I'd rather have cheap food and pissed off farmers than happy farmers and poor people starving. I think the problem is/was that the poor benefited significantly less (or at the very least, less obviously) than the well-off. The vote was used, I think, as is happening with other votes around the world (fromt he tea party to occupy to greece to sanders & trump to the EU), as an anti-establishment protest. I think neoliberal (regan/thatcher/clinton/blairite) politics has just left too many behind, at least relatively, and they feel disconnected and ignored. Unfortunately this is coupled with a rejection of all elites which, as we see with Trump and the EU vote in particular, means not listening to experts and rejecting facts in favour of comfortable emotional bullshit. I would've preferred a left-orchestrated exit from (or reform of) the EU than a right-wing one but I'm not entirely sure the right benefits from this exit. I really don't think Boris and the rest expected to win and are surely going to be blamed for the coming economic fuckery. Labour is in a mess, though. I think Corbyn has the right kind of ideas but he's fucking awful at communicating them. And is obviously being held back by the (large) blairite third-way faction in the parliamentary party. The public has, I believe, rejected their political philosophy and he needs to use that as a mandate to be rid of them and speak, with a rational voice and a return to fact, for those who feel mistreated by and disaffected towards the mainstream politics of the last ~30 years. Otherwise Labour is a pointless third neoliberal centre-right party. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

+3/3

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From:	milko	27 Jun 2016 11:33
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	63 of 93

41766.63 In reply to 41766.62
Labour appears completely fucked, today. Total rebellion from their PLP but with apparently fuck all of an actual plan... it's oddly reminiscent of the Leave campaign in fact. I don't really see how they're going to get back from this any time soon unless Corbyn sorts it out convincingly. That's a pretty big unless. I posted much of the same thing as your opinions in the other thread, I think. There are good reasons to want to leave, but the people in charge of us leaving are not going to be going in that direction, just the opposite. Actually that does seem to have changed a bit over the weekend and today, it turns out that the people in charge of us leaving actually possibly don't want to after all, they're just going to mess everything up so badly that nothing much changes apart from us having the recession. Article 50 still not triggered.

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From:	fixrman	27 Jun 2016 12:03
To:	koswix	64 of 93

41766.64 In reply to 41766.56

Quote:

There are "experts" on both sides of the debate, but anyone claiming to be an expert most likely isn't one.

On that, there - and on many issues here - we have a solid, common ground.

Quote:

Even after reading your source, there is no argument - just rhetoric.

There were facts (?), figures and reasons, kos. Are you saying they are all made up and not a ring of truth to any of them?

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	27 Jun 2016 12:36
To:	milko	65 of 93

41766.65 In reply to 41766.63
I think Labour's one chance of winning a snap election, albeit a very slim one, was for it to consolidate behind Corbyn, and help him to capitalize on the 'brexit buyers' remorse', which financial markets are turning into a roaring conflagration as we speak. If they're going into a bitter and divisive leadership campaign, which Corbyn is almost bound to win if his name is on the ballot (according to party rules, it must be), then they might as well throw in the towel now, and prepare for a Boris coronation. electric eels can leap out of water and shock you

+1/1

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From:	koswix	27 Jun 2016 15:04
To:	fixrman	66 of 93

41766.66 In reply to 41766.64

Very few figures were given, those that were were not cited, and stating an opinion ("too much immigration" or "the euro has failed" for example) does it make them fact, they are still just opinion.


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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	william (WILLIAMA)	27 Jun 2016 15:50
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	67 of 93

41766.67 In reply to 41766.62
I heard him speak about 6 months ago and he came over well, but that was with a receptive audience. He treats his audience with respect and doesn't dumb down his message which means that with a proportion of the electorate he is bound to fail. Somebody like Boris who comes on with arms aloft and announces 'Big!' nods a couple of times and follows through with 'Shiny!' will succeed. But Corbyn's real problem is the opposition ranked against him, and that's the vast majority of the press and other media and his own parliamentary party who were busy briefing against him before the ink was dry on his candidacy. The behaviour of both is just jaw-dropping. If there's a Tory crisis then expect the story to be 'Corbyn not up to exploiting Tory crisis' and the press can pick from twenty third way Labour MPs to provide soundbites. You will almost never see footage of one of his speeches. What you will see is Laura Kuenssberg with her claims about what he must be thinking, usually with a few of her barbed remarks presented as factual reporting. On Saturday morning The BBC gave Ann Coffey an 'interview' where she was able to present a character assassination of Corbyn without a challenge or critical question. the following morning, a scheduled appearance by the shadow chancellor John McDonnell was replaced with an interview with Hilary Benn, again largely unchallenged and uncritical. Sweet old Hilary gave his faint praise destruction of Corbyn with relish, every inch the conspirator - the kind of thing that would have had his father spinning in his grave. never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead

+1/1

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	30 Jun 2016 14:03
To:	ALL	68 of 93

41766.68
Whoa. Just like that, BoJo's out electric eels can leap out of water and shock you

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From:	ANT_THOMAS	30 Jun 2016 14:15
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	69 of 93

41766.69 In reply to 41766.68
The 7 days since the referendum are getting very much out of hand. A

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From:	dave (10_ROGUE)	30 Jun 2016 14:16
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	70 of 93

41766.70 In reply to 41766.68
Wasn't he moved from education secretary to chief whip before the last election because no one can stand him? What does he think has changed? I thought there was more than a touch of machiavelli about him, but he's pulled a proper bait and switch with Boris.

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	30 Jun 2016 14:19
To:	ANT_THOMAS	71 of 93

41766.71 In reply to 41766.69
Captain's locked himself in his cabin with a bottle of rum and service revolver, mutineers are either fist-fighting or jumping overboard. Icebergs ahead... (fail) (fail) (fail) electric eels can leap out of water and shock you

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From:	graphitone	30 Jun 2016 15:14
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	72 of 93

41766.72 In reply to 41766.71
As much as I dislike the current lot, I'm backing Theresa May for PM. She seems the most staunch, forthright and switched on of the lot. Drawings n' that

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From:	koswix	30 Jun 2016 15:18
To:	graphitone	73 of 93

41766.73 In reply to 41766.72
That's like saying rhubarb is the the most staunch, forthright and switched on. Only because it's forced to develop in artificial conditions. Theresa May is probably the most dangerous of the lot, as she is severely ideologically driven and seems to have the skills to pull off her ideas. At least gove wouldn't actually manage to fuck anything up. ▪ ┌────┐ ┌────┐ │ │ │ │ ▪ │ └────┘ │ │ ──┐ ┌── │ ▪ ┌──────┤ ▪ ▪ │ ┌┘ │ │ ▪ ┌─┤ └──┐ │ │ ┌──┘ │ │ │ ││ ││ │ ┌─┐ │ │ └─┼┤ └┴─┴───┘ │ │ │ ─┘│ │ │ │ ┌──────┐ └┬──────────┘ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └───┘ └───┘ If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

+1/1

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From:	ANT_THOMAS	30 Jun 2016 15:28
To:	koswix	74 of 93

41766.74 In reply to 41766.73
^^^^ This She was the one who rolled out the disgusting "Go Home" immigration vans. Ideologically strong and happy to go about making things actually happen. A

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From:	graphitone	30 Jun 2016 15:33
To:	koswix	75 of 93

41766.75 In reply to 41766.73
:-D I like rhubarb. Yeah, I'm fed up of fucking impotent politicians, she'd be effective, I just don't think it'd be a good thing. If Gove was elected, he'd only add to his hugely unpopular status. Drawings n' that

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From:	milko	30 Jun 2016 15:37
To:	graphitone	76 of 93

41766.76 In reply to 41766.75
May will probably be efficiently and competently evil yes. What's this with her and the Yarl's Wood sexual offences? I haven't read up on it properly but her handling of that was reportedly Very Bad. I have almost come to like how each day answers the question "Can this get any worse and farcical?" with "Sure, why not?"

+1/1

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From:	koswix	30 Jun 2016 16:06
To:	graphitone	77 of 93

41766.77 In reply to 41766.75

Everyone likes rhubarb, and thankfully rhubarb doesn't hold many inflammatory views.


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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	Manthorp	30 Jun 2016 16:26
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	78 of 93

41766.78 In reply to 41766.68
It's not Westminster, it's Jonestown. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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