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 From:  koswix   15 Nov 2015 00:06 
 To:  fixrman       18 of 40 
41625.18 In reply to 41625.12 
>>A gun. Most people are incredibly bad shots and can't hit the broad side of a barn with one, let alone a moving target. Problem is, most people freeze with panic instead of taking action.

And yet you advocate arming everyone so they can take a pop at the terrorists. 

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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 From:  milko   15 Nov 2015 09:44 
 To:  ALL 19 of 40 
41625.19 
If we are going to do this, we should acknowledge that for example Canada have their citizens allowed guns and they manage not to shoot each other nearly as much as people do in the USA. So it's not only having guns that is the problem, there's more to it than that. Still, I'm not sure why people like fixrman are often so keen on other nations getting MORE guns. I live in London and. It is not rare to see someone losing their temper at some point during the day. Why would adding guns help? Meanwhile we have armed police for those situations where people are using illegal weapons and it seems to work ok most of the time.
milko
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 From:  koswix   15 Nov 2015 09:51 
 To:  milko      20 of 40 
41625.20 In reply to 41625.19 
Canada has about the same amount of territory as the USA, but a tenth of the population. There are fewer gun deaths because the bullets just go through the gaps between the people. 

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   15 Nov 2015 11:14 
 To:  koswix      21 of 40 
41625.21 In reply to 41625.20 
There are far stricter controls over gun ownership here. Our previous PM loosened them up quite a bit, but he's gone.

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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   15 Nov 2015 11:18 
 To:  koswix      22 of 40 
41625.22 In reply to 41625.20 
Most occur in urban areas between gangs using smuggled/stolen guns.

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 From:  fixrman    15 Nov 2015 12:30 
 To:  milko      23 of 40 
41625.23 In reply to 41625.19 
I don't want you to own guns if you don't want to. Nobody should be forced to own a gun if they don't want to. But nobody - at least here in the U.S. - should be telling me I have to give up mine as long as I am possessing a firearm legally, obeying the law.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman    15 Nov 2015 12:32 
 To:  milko      24 of 40 
41625.24 In reply to 41625.14 
Actually, as bad as drivers are here, driverless cars would be an improvement, especailly those from New Jersey.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman    15 Nov 2015 12:40 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      25 of 40 
41625.25 In reply to 41625.13 
Quote: 
Consider what that indicates.

I did. My reply remains the same.

Quote: 

What makes a person moving from one free country to another illegal?

Please don't play at being deliberately obtuse, Peter. You know full well the difference between legal and illegal immigration, but if you are unsure, you have the wherewithal to look it up.
 

Quote: 
determine what actions combined to cause innocent children to grow into murderers.

That's great Pete, but that only helps future children, and only then if one does something after determining the cause. What is your plan for that? What do we do about the ones that are already screwed up? They are young adults or adults, so their behavioural patterns are likely pretty well set in stone. How do we deal with them effectively to prevent violence?



 

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman    15 Nov 2015 12:48 
 To:  koswix      26 of 40 
41625.26 In reply to 41625.18 
Quote: 
you advocate arming everyone



Not everyone, just those who want one and are legally allowed to own a gun. Where did I ever say that everyone should carry a gun? You are using words that I have not.

People who own a gun should be proficient in the use of a gun and should know how to handle the gun responsibly. People who have a CCP should be held to a higher standard so that, in the event they need to use the weapon for self-defense - they hit what they aim. It should be ready, aim fire - not fire, ready, aim as it too often is.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   15 Nov 2015 15:49 
 To:  fixrman       27 of 40 
41625.27 In reply to 41625.25 
:(

Seems you're just reading the words and not what I wrote. Don't worry, I'll just go cry into a pizza about how nobody even tries to understand.

 
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   15 Nov 2015 16:17 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      28 of 40 
41625.28 In reply to 41625.27 
Are tears one of your preferred toppings?
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 From:  milko   15 Nov 2015 22:04 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      29 of 40 
41625.29 In reply to 41625.28 
salty!
milko
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 From:  fixrman    16 Nov 2015 02:08 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      30 of 40 
41625.30 In reply to 41625.27 
Oh, go on! I'll buy a damn pizza, toppings and all.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   16 Nov 2015 13:55 
 To:  ALL 31 of 40 
41625.31 
We're being played like fish

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 From:  fixrman    17 Nov 2015 02:27 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)      32 of 40 
41625.32 In reply to 41625.31 
So what's your solution?
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  JonCooper   23 Nov 2015 14:19 
 To:  ALL 33 of 40 
41625.33 
you know the bit I don't get?

we (the 'western world') have been invading the middle east for literally 100s of years

we have gone over there dozens of times and kicked their asses in various ways

from medieval crusades to 'desert storm' and the removal of leaders we didn't approve of

but now they are fighting back suddenly /they/ are the bad guys?

any way you paint this story, the fact is; we started it.
Jon
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   24 Nov 2015 06:40 
 To:  JonCooper      34 of 40 
41625.34 In reply to 41625.33 
Welllllllll...

The crusades were partly in response to Muslim expansion. By 750 AD the Umayyads had conquered everything from Iran to Egypt, across (the rest of) North Africa, up through Spain and even had a bit of Southern France. Christendom was, reasonably, fucking terrified. It took Spain nearly 800 years to get the whole of Spain back during which the Abassids held on to the rest of what the Umayyads had taken and even got hold of Sicily (which would be a worry to the Vatican, understandably) from time to time.

After the Ottomans conquered Constantinople (partly due to European duplicity, ironically) in 1453 it kinda opened the floodgates and they rapidly took the Balkans and got as far into Europe as Vienna (they didn't take Vienna but they got close to it).

This is alongside the sometimes Muslim Khanates which were holding various parts of Russia and Eastern Europe off and on during the same period.

(I've been playing far too much CK2)

So it's not like the crusades were *totally* out of the blue. From the point of view of Christian Europe there had been a looming threat for a good thousand years.

So yeah, Christianity and Islam have been fighting pretty much continuously since about the 7th Century.

The problem is that, by modern times, Europe/Christianity/The West had won but carried on fucking them up anyway. And handing Israel back to the Jews obviously didn't help. Nor did fighting proxy wars with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan etc..

So yeah, I'd agree that 'we' ('The West') created Al Qaeda through our actions in the 20th Century. Or at least created the conditions under which they were likely to arise.

Al Qaeda had demands and were understandable as a political entity. They wanted to *hurt* the West and/but also had specific goals within Muslim countries. They were organised in cells with a sort of peer-to-peer structure and thus, basically, resembled the political terrorist/freedom fighter organisations we're familiar with and have existed for a long time. Because of their loose organisation, really an umbrella organisation for groups with overlapping aims, they're often described as a franchise, which seems apt.

IS are different. For starters they're organised hierarchically, not as cells. They are unmistakably one organisation, not a collective/franchise. They have no demands, they're not trying to use terrorism to force Western governments to do anything in particular or deliver anything in particular.

Their power is based on land and they're taking it. Conquering it. Al Qaeda never did that, it would be counter to what they were (hidden, for starters). IS isn't trying to hide. Nor are they political in the same way that Al Qaeda were. They're not trying to force Western or Middle Eastern governments into doing anything in particular, they're just conquering.

And the reason for all this is that they have a very particular interpretation of Islam which is, aside from everything else, apocalyptic. They don't want anything from the West other than to provoke them to war in order to bring about the end times.

And, luckily for them, many American protestants have an apocalyptic interpretation of Christianity (hence the importance of Israel to, amongst others, the Republican Party) so they may well get what they want if the Republicans get in.

Anyway, sorry, my actual point was that while I agree that the West was pretty much entirely culpable for the creation of Al Qaeda (as well as various regional dictators and all kinds of fuckery), I think the West and Middle Eastern countries created IS together. We set the conditions and they let it happen (often fomenting or at least using radical sentiments to their own ends).

IS are properly evil.



 
 
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 From:  koswix   24 Nov 2015 09:24 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      35 of 40 
41625.35 In reply to 41625.34 
Maybe IS just saw your imgur link and decided to stop fucking around and go on a crusade?

(Also, what is that game? It looks like Risk but betterer. And why do you always reappear on here posting about interesting looking time sinks when I have deadlines/exams/stuff/etc.? Cunt.)

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   24 Nov 2015 10:19 
 To:  koswix      36 of 40 
41625.36 In reply to 41625.35 
It's Crusader Kings II and it's pretty great. It's like hyper-complex Risk. Crossed with Football Manager. Only you manage your mediaeval dynasty instead of footballs. I'd say it's The Sims meets Risk meets Football Manager meets Game of Thrones.

 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   24 Nov 2015 10:57 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      37 of 40 
41625.37 In reply to 41625.34 
Isis is the former Iraqi army command of Saddam Hussein. Think about that.

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