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 From:  Matt   3 Aug 2015 12:34 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      Poll 55 of 110 
41543.55 In reply to 41543.47 
With regards to Windows on the desktop and starting over from scratch. They can't, or rather people up-high have told them they can't. I'm sure there are plenty of developers in the Windows group that would love and have probably tried to start over, but have been shot down / don't have the needed permission from the bean counters to make it stick.

As for Windows Mobile - 8 and 10 really aren't that bad. Microsoft's biggest problem was enticing users and thus developers away from Android and iOS. Essentially, Apple and Google have done and are still doing to Microsoft what Microsoft did to it's competitors on the desktop - got people too heavily invested in their platforms for them to be able to switch. But in the similar vein, Apple and Google are now nearing the same position Microsoft are in but on Mobile - they have so many users heavily invested in Android and iOS that they simply would not be able to afford to start over.

And I'm not going to touch the NT kernel stuff - obvious troll is obvious :P

doohicky
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 From:  fixrman   3 Aug 2015 12:38 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      Poll 56 of 110 
41543.56 In reply to 41543.47 
You obviously know WAY more than I do about an OS, but I will offer this: NT was actually good back with Windows 2000. I really liked W2K because it was such an improvement over path picky and cranky W98/98SE. ME was a shitbox OS; of course, the old saw of "every other release was OK" applies (for me), but I didn't care for XP at all.

Windows 7 was, in my opinion a better extension of 2000 but it was way too bloated. I installed W7 32 bit on an SSD and paid the ultimate price because it didn't play nice with GRUB, even though *nix and Windoze were on 2 separate drives, both OSes were hosed one fine day when something wasn't well liked.

One thing that really grinds my gears is the endless restarts on updates with Windoze. They HAVE to get away from that. With Linux (specifically Mint, but they all operate pretty much the same in *nix land), I can install 442 updates in about 4 minutes whilst continuing what I am doing without a disruption. 442 updates on Windows could take 30 minutes, and I have to watch a circular juggle of balls(YJ) whilst I do not do anything else because Windoze prevents it.

I am glad to be rid of the Charms Bar (well, it is mostly gone) but I want to be rid of 80% of those "touch the edge utilities". I don't have a tablet or a touchscreen, so stop making me use an OS that thinks I have a touchscreen or tablet, dammit! Actually, I dislike using a laptop because I hate the keyboards, preferring a full size, clacky keyboard.

Microsoft doesn't realise, nor do they care it seems, that the OS needs to be just a tool to get things done, rather than something that invades the whole time spent on the box. I don't want the OS to be so front and center that I know it is there all of the time. Now I am going back to the Linux box because whatever I borked when sonny and I were tearing the basement apart - a light fixture had fallen and knocked the FiOS cable out -  now works again.  :-D
 
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)   3 Aug 2015 13:41 
 To:  Matt      Poll 57 of 110 
41543.57 In reply to 41543.55 
It's been interesting any time I've been to any developer-related Microsoft events (Tech Ed many moons ago, a SQL course in Seattle more recently), to hear the tales from the people on the ground in Microsoft. There's a lot of inter-departmental wrangling goes on, especially for something like SSIS, where the SQL team were dependent on what the Visual Studio team could produce for the interface, and had to deal with the Office team to figure out how the hell to extract data from the various formats of Office documents (and if you want a laugh, all you have to do is ask about date handling in Excel and 64-bit ODBC drivers).

I wonder what'll happen in the future to the stuff like Visual Studio and SQL Server - it's not sexy modern customer facing stuff, so it doesn't sell to the general public, but I imagine the licensing of that kind of thing is a fairly hefty chunk of their income, and it is dependent on having an OS that'll run the stuff.

(The main reason I wonder what'll happen is because if they were to decide to give up on SQL Server, rather a lot of the stuff I work on, and the people I work for, would be a bit screwed.)
Kenny
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 From:  Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)   3 Aug 2015 13:43 
 To:  Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)      Poll 58 of 110 
41543.58 In reply to 41543.57 
Meanwhile, I can't upgrade my home PC to 10, because "There are no supported networking devices", despite my computer having an utterly bog standard Atheros (wired) and Ralink (wireless) devices.

I'm taking that as a hint not to bother upgrading yet.
Kenny
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   3 Aug 2015 14:33 
 To:  ALL Poll 59 of 110 
41543.59 
I feel a chip shop parable coming on...

----
"Giant pig hot air balloon crashes after tangling with a cowboy-shaped one"
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 From:  Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)   3 Aug 2015 15:27 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)      Poll 60 of 110 
41543.60 In reply to 41543.59 
I've given up on those, since my last one involved the girl from the local chip shop leaving the chip shop and becoming the UK's youngest MP since 1832, which is patently ridiculous.
Kenny
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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   3 Aug 2015 18:28 
 To:  fixrman      Poll 61 of 110 
41543.61 In reply to 41543.56 
Quote: 
I didn't care for XP at all.

Agreed! I never had a computer that locked up and crashed so much as when I had one with XP. I was SO thankful just to get away from that one it was ridiculous.

The one I have now has 8.1, which hasn't given me any issues with working, but I don't really care for some of the layout.

I don't need all that stuff they put in it. Like news, cooking, shopping, and so forth. All I need is my desktop and what I have on it. Also, I preferred the old start menu, before they started putting it all over the screen like they have it now, and I don't need that hover mess off to the side. 



 

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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   3 Aug 2015 19:33 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      Poll 62 of 110 
41543.62 In reply to 41543.61 
You've pretty much summed up why I upgrade to 7.

truffy.gifbastard by name
bastard by nature
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   3 Aug 2015 19:35 
 To:  milko      Poll 63 of 110 
41543.63 In reply to 41543.1 
So many unknown users! How is this possible?

truffy.gifbastard by name
bastard by nature
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 From:  Dave!!   3 Aug 2015 19:44 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      Poll 64 of 110 
41543.64 In reply to 41543.61 
It's interesting how different people have different experiences. I really liked XP and found it very stable. Could be that coming from Windows 98, it was a big step forwards stability wise (on most hardware). I certainly had no problems sticking with it during the mess of Vista, and I do still run it on an old Mac Mini that turns its nose up at Windows 7. In all honesty, I cannot remember the last time it crashed on me.

I do find it interesting when they talk about Windows 10 and go on about major new features like Cortana (which 99% of PC users will probably never use), and Edge (I have a perfectly good browser already thanks).

I know they're still trying with the mobile side of things, but if you don't use Windows on a mobile device like a phone or tablet and have no interest in doing so, then most of these features are of little use. I just want a version of Windows which looks good, and is designed to be as good as possible on a proper PC. Unfortunately, Windows 7 is the last time they developed an OS with such a clear mindset. Windows 10 is definitely better than 8/8.1, but you can still see the compromises, and there's still too many messy and unfinished areas as a result.
---

 
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 From:  Matt   3 Aug 2015 19:56 
 To:  Dave!!      Poll 65 of 110 
41543.65 In reply to 41543.64 
quote: Dave!!
and Edge (I have a perfectly good browser already thanks).

I think you missed the point of Edge. Edge is Internet Explorer with a new engine (free of all the legacy cruft from IE11) and new branding. It's like what Firefox is to The Mozilla Suite.

doohicky
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   3 Aug 2015 21:24 
 To:  Matt      Poll 66 of 110 
41543.66 In reply to 41543.65 
They use the same fucking icon though. Not good.

----
"Giant pig hot air balloon crashes after tangling with a cowboy-shaped one"
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 From:  fixrman   3 Aug 2015 21:39 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      Poll 67 of 110 
41543.67 In reply to 41543.61 
Quote: 
I never had a computer that locked up and crashed so much as when I had one with XP.

And Vista was even worse. 8.1 I hated straightaway; I wish I would have bought W7/64.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  milko   3 Aug 2015 21:50 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      Poll 68 of 110 
41543.68 In reply to 41543.63 
I dunno. Maybe we are secretly popular! Ish. 
milko
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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   4 Aug 2015 00:05 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      Poll 69 of 110 
41543.69 In reply to 41543.62 
I wasn't too thrilled with 7 either, but it was better than XP.

8.1 I like, except for the what they did with the start menu and the annoying hover thing.

I liked when Start was down in the lower left. You clicked it if you wanted something on it, but otherwise, it just sat there all nice and inconspicuous.

This business of having it spread out all over the place, and full of a bunch of a junk I don't even use, is really annoying, then they just had to throw in that hover crap and add insult to injury.

Give me good functionality to do what I want to do without a bunch of muck I'll never use, and I'm happy. There are just some things they should never try to make too fancy. Some of are more basic and to the point about such things.

I mean seriously. A pig in a dress is still a pig. :P



 

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   4 Aug 2015 00:10 
 To:  Dave!!      Poll 70 of 110 
41543.70 In reply to 41543.64 
Like I said above, I preferred when the Start menu was a button in the lower left, and if you wanted something you just clicked on it. There was no hover menu. Start wasn't spread out all over the place. It was simple, clean, and clear.

In my book, I think they need to take a few steps back in some areas.

As I said, a pig in a dress is still a pig.

With some of the changes they've made over the last couple versions, I think they need to put something different in the trough. Simple and functional works best. :)



 

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   4 Aug 2015 00:12 
 To:  fixrman      Poll 71 of 110 
41543.71 In reply to 41543.67 
I don't like 8.1's layout, or all the extra junk it comes packed with, but it's working better for me than it's predecessors for my uses.

XP was a nightmare. My comp spent more time in the shop than at home. Felt like I had my old Windows 95 or 98 back. They spent more time getting fixed than not too.



 

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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   4 Aug 2015 00:43 
 To:  Matt      Poll 72 of 110 
41543.72 In reply to 41543.65 
It's not really a new engine though. It's a fork of Trident. Or, to put it another way, a continuation of Trident.

Which is all fine, nothing inherently wrong with Trident. But it's definitely neither new nor free of legacy cruft (unlike Mozilla's Servo - genuinely new, built from scratch in Rust and looking pretty cool (though early days)).
 
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   4 Aug 2015 05:21 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      Poll 73 of 110 
41543.73 In reply to 41543.69 
I thought 8.1 brought back the Start button. But I spent so long waiting for 8.1 in place of the abomination that was 8, and it all seemed too little too late so I bailed ages ago.

truffy.gifbastard by name
bastard by nature
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 From:  koswix   4 Aug 2015 09:08 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      Poll 74 of 110 
41543.74 In reply to 41543.69 
If you're still on 8.1, install this to. Get. Your start menu back: http://www.classicshell.net

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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.
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