eBay Fees - Teh Forum

From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 13:52
To:	koswix	54 of 124

41424.54 In reply to 41424.52
consumer, private not business (it was my son's tool and he's lost interest) Jon

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From:	koswix	16 Mar 2015 14:05
To:	JonCooper	55 of 124

41424.55 In reply to 41424.54
OK, well you're protected by the various consumer laws then which is A Good Thing. Looking around google (mainly the complaints are about TNT), seems the likely outcome is that the courier will refuse to pay out, citing the signature as acceptance that the goods were OK. But if you push them, and put the claim in writing with the threat of small claims court etc. you should get it settled. The notion that a signature absolves them of responsibility is largely unenforceable (under consumer law) as their would be a myriad of requirements on them to make it reasonable (allowing reasonable time to inspect the goods, actually telling you what you're signing (doesn't mention that shit on the handhelds they all use now) etc.). ▪ ┌────┐ ┌────┐ │ │ │ │ ▪ │ └────┘ │ │ ──┐ ┌── │ ▪ ┌──────┤ ▪ ▪ │ ┌┘ │ │ ▪ ┌─┤ └──┐ │ │ ┌──┘ │ │ │ ││ ││ │ ┌─┐ │ │ └─┼┤ └┴─┴───┘ │ │ │ ─┘│ │ │ │ ┌──────┐ └┬──────────┘ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └───┘ └───┘ If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	ANT_THOMAS	16 Mar 2015 14:10
To:	koswix	56 of 124

41424.56 In reply to 41424.55
Plus plenty of other points too I imagine, like the person signing for it not being the person it's addressed to. I'm sure I've also seen from some couriers the POD you sign saying something like you can't sign for it as being not inspected. ┌─────┐ │ │ │ ┌─┐ │ │ │ │ │ │ └─┘ │ │ │ │ ┌─┐ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └─┘ └─┘

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From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 14:17
To:	koswix	57 of 124

41424.57 In reply to 41424.55
you make some good points, how happy would a delivery driver be to wait about while you unpacked everything and checked it all over? also, what Ant said, anyone can sign, even a neighbour, that's unlikely to be binding Jon

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From:	koswix	16 Mar 2015 14:19
To:	JonCooper	58 of 124

41424.58 In reply to 41424.57
<< Terms requiring that the goods are accepted as satisfactory on delivery, or imposing unreasonable conditions on their return. Consumers have a right to a reasonable opportunity to examine goods and reject them if faulty. In the case of complex goods, a reasonable opportunity to examine means a chance to try the goods out. Consumers cannot legally be deprived of this right by being required to sign 'satisfaction' notes on delivery, or by being required to return goods in a way that may not be possible – for example, in disposable packaging that they are likely to discard after opening. >> From page 19 of this: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284426/oft311.pdf ▪ ┌────┐ ┌────┐ │ │ │ │ ▪ │ └────┘ │ │ ──┐ ┌── │ ▪ ┌──────┤ ▪ ▪ │ ┌┘ │ │ ▪ ┌─┤ └──┐ │ │ ┌──┘ │ │ │ ││ ││ │ ┌─┐ │ │ └─┼┤ └┴─┴───┘ │ │ │ ─┘│ │ │ │ ┌──────┐ └┬──────────┘ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └───┘ └───┘ If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	koswix	16 Mar 2015 14:19
To:	JonCooper	59 of 124

41424.59 In reply to 41424.57

I'd consider a lathe to be 'complex goods', so he'd also have to wait while you turned a few table legs :D


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If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	16 Mar 2015 14:22
To:	ALL	60 of 124

41424.60 In reply to 41424.40
This story has 'buyer's scam' writ large all over it. He wants a free lathe. May even be a fence who takes orders for stuff. Seems pretty fucking confident to both sign for it AND submit photos of obvious damage. Nope, this is a scam. ---- "Apple Pay accepted at up to 100,000 Coca-Cola machines"

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	16 Mar 2015 14:25
To:	koswix	61 of 124

41424.61 In reply to 41424.58
Here you have to note visible damage to the package when you sign, if you expect to collect anything. Otherwise the shipping co. just says it wasn't packed correctly (which is often true). Wet? Torn open? Fuggedaboutit. ---- "Apple Pay accepted at up to 100,000 Coca-Cola machines"

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From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 14:35
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	62 of 124

41424.62 In reply to 41424.60
well, if that's the case he has been planning it for a long time, there is no indication anywhere in his eBay feedback that he has tried anything dodgy with anyone else and, I don't see what he could gain by smashing it up Jon

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	16 Mar 2015 14:48
To:	JonCooper	63 of 124

41424.63 In reply to 41424.62
He may have one with broken parts he intends to swap in from yours? It fell over in a wet basement? I dunno. just smells real fishy. ---- "Apple Pay accepted at up to 100,000 Coca-Cola machines"

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From:	fixrman	16 Mar 2015 15:01
To:	ANT_THOMAS	64 of 124

41424.64 In reply to 41424.37

Perhaps you see it differently, but once a shipper accepts a package, it is their responsibility to see that it gets delivered with no damage. Ever seen package handling at a hub?

A buyer who buys an item needs to have it shipped. If bought from eBay, buyer acknowledges what the shipping terms are or can ask for alternate shipping. It doesn't matter who "picks" the shipping company, they are a contractor. As such, they were contracted to deliver a package and it is assumed that the package will be delivered damage - fee.

In the shipping and receiving business, it is the receiver of the goods who reports damage, not the shipper; it is called a bailment situation. The package was in the delivery company's care, custody and control. Once delivered, it is in the receiver's CCC. If the receiver noted no damage to a delivered package and signed for it in the presence of the deliverer as being accepted Delivered in Good Condition, the receiver accepts all loss at that point. The only exception is concealed damage, such as a box being partially crushed but the container remains otherwise intact. At that point, the receiver should either open the package in the presence of the deliverer, or sign for the package, noting damage. Same applies with a package that has burst.

This isn't that difficult, guys. Stop reading more into it than necessary, eBay be damned.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	16 Mar 2015 15:03
To:	JonCooper	65 of 124

41424.65 In reply to 41424.38

>> ~~~ Why would anyone sign for this ? ~~~ <<

Answer that, and problem solved. Does it make sense? No.

So why is the Buyer contacting the Seller?

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 15:06
To:	fixrman	66 of 124

41424.66 In reply to 41424.64
eBay/paypal has the money so they get to make the rules Jon

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From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 15:08
To:	fixrman	67 of 124

41424.67 In reply to 41424.65
>> So why is the Buyer contacting the Seller? << because that is his easiest option, eBay has my money, if I don't fix this they will just give it back to him Jon

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	16 Mar 2015 15:11
To:	JonCooper	68 of 124

41424.68 In reply to 41424.67
Glad I don't buy/sell stuff through ebay. ---- "Apple Pay accepted at up to 100,000 Coca-Cola machines"

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From:	JonCooper	16 Mar 2015 15:20
To:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	69 of 124

41424.69 In reply to 41424.68
it's usually ok, I've been using the site for over 15 years with very few issuse Jon

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From:	koswix	16 Mar 2015 15:21
To:	fixrman	70 of 124

41424.70 In reply to 41424.64
>>This isn't that difficult, guys. Stop reading more into it than necessary, eBay be damned. Point is that, under UK consumer law at least, you sign to say a package has been received, not that it's in any given condition or free from damage. Now obviously the buyer is an asshat for signing for anything when it was clearly fucked, but I know plenty of people who could and would be pressurised into signing for it. Woudn't even be surprised if the courier tried it on saying "you're just signing to say it's received, you'll need to fill out a claim form to get it sorted". I've also had couriers turn up at my flat door (2nd floor) with their handheld computermabob asking me to sign for stuff that they haven't even got out of the van yet "wanted to make sure you were in before I lugged it up here" is the usual excuse). I'm always doubly suspicious when they try that! ▪ ┌────┐ ┌────┐ │ │ │ │ ▪ │ └────┘ │ │ ──┐ ┌── │ ▪ ┌──────┤ ▪ ▪ │ ┌┘ │ │ ▪ ┌─┤ └──┐ │ │ ┌──┘ │ │ │ ││ ││ │ ┌─┐ │ │ └─┼┤ └┴─┴───┘ │ │ │ ─┘│ │ │ │ ┌──────┐ └┬──────────┘ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └───┘ └───┘ If Feds call you and say something bad on me, it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

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From:	fixrman	16 Mar 2015 15:34
To:	JonCooper	71 of 124

41424.71 In reply to 41424.66

I logged into my eBay and curiously there is no mention of what happens when a package is received damaged, only mention is damaged merchandise.

I'd contact eBay via Email then call eBay and get someone on the phone, if that is possible. Regardless, the buyer's beef would have been with the shipper, but he clearly neglected to properly note damage in shipping. To me, that is a dick move if he figured he could just shove it back on you due to vague or non-existent eBay policy for Damage in Transit. I suspect they have no policy because they know at that point it is out of their control.

Having been a shipping clerk myself, I can tell you by the looks of the packaging, it was insufficiently packed for transit. If you will rise up in righteous indignation at that conclusion, then revert back to the Buyer's failing to note Transit damage and come to a conclusion there.

Good luck with it.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	16 Mar 2015 15:38
To:	fixrman	72 of 124

41424.72 In reply to 41424.71
I was a shipping clerk long time ago. Interesting trade. ---- "Apple Pay accepted at up to 100,000 Coca-Cola machines"

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From:	fixrman	16 Mar 2015 15:44
To:	koswix	73 of 124

41424.73 In reply to 41424.70

>> Point is that, under UK consumer law at least, you sign to say a package has been received, not that it's in any given condition or free from damage. <<

I find that very hard to believe. With all the rules and regulations the U.K. has (not that we don't have as many or more) it is inconceivable to me that Consumer Law does not address this.

I don't know how Jon shipped the parcel, but: Mail

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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