War & PoliticsGun Laws

  

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 From:  Monsoir (PILOTDAN)   12 Oct 2014 10:08 
 To:  fixrman       91 of 177 
41226.91 In reply to 41226.90 
I really file like you arguing wiht me over small semantics here when you know what point I'm trying to make.

Yes, you can use "resigned to" instead of "comfortable with" if you wish, but the key point I was making before what that nobody should ever shoot at something that they don't want (with whatever definition you choose) dead.

No idea why you picked the tiny bit of quote about shooting to stop when, again, I was just clarifying it's shoot to stop because shoot to kill has other implications (I.e., you'll run over and tap them in the head if they're still breathing). 

And I have no real idea where you're going with the last bit. Ken was making a point that people might shoot to injure/wound - my point is if you're shooting, you should believe that it's 99% likely that person will die. And, if you're not okay with that, you need to keep your finger off the trigger.

Dan Herman
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 From:  fixrman    12 Oct 2014 12:31 
 To:  Monsoir (PILOTDAN)      92 of 177 
41226.92 In reply to 41226.91 
Dan, I don't know you well enough to know necessarily what you mean. I am sure this discussion would go differently in person because we could see each others expressions, hear tone, experience body language - all the things helpful in discerning position. Plus, there is a little bit of a difference in our expressions here and yours there that even my English heritage doesn't fully account.

The point I am trying to make is that I do not have some sort of "cowboy" mentality when it comes to guns; I believe gun ownership carries with it great responsibility, and even greater responsibility with their use. I believe gun ownership should be difficult to get and difficult to keep. Desperados were criminals and I am not a criminal.

I believe guns should be allowed for those who have been approved via a strict process. I believe if a gun is to be used for defense it should be treated the same way we are told to drive, i.e we drive defensively, not offensively. I believe if we followed the gun laws we already have, we would not have half the problems we have now with guns.

Sorry. I forgot. If I am shooting at someone in self defense I am not sure I would injure to wound, I think I would be shooting to hit. So that means trunk area until I see that the person no longer is a threat, such as having dropped their firearm.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Manthorp   14 Oct 2014 18:24 
 To:  ALL 93 of 177 
41226.93 
Milko is a fine example of the right of the British to bear small arms. IGMC
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   14 Oct 2014 20:17 
 To:  ALL 94 of 177 
41226.94 
I rather like the fact that Americans can kill each other. It makes so much more sense than them killing other things.

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 From:  fixrman    15 Oct 2014 02:04 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      95 of 177 
41226.95 In reply to 41226.94 
Brits can kill each other too, and have done. It is messy and takes a long time, but even a bumbershoot will do.

I'd say at this point this thread has gone long past a useful purpose, that being gun laws. You are now reducing it to taunting and ridicule. Gun laws: We have them. They aren't good enough and/or aren't being followed.

I won't convince anyone they should have or want to have guns, and you folks will not convince me to give up my right to have or own them - not that I want to do either. It is an impasse.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Manthorp   15 Oct 2014 02:51 
 To:  fixrman       96 of 177 
41226.96 In reply to 41226.95 
Kinda what I said some time ago.  But it's not an impasse because there's no meaningful dispute.

We operate on different moral guages.  Who's to say which is right? Morality is more relative than any of us would care to think.

The common ground is in agreeing that nations and communities have the right to their own moral principles and supporting legislation. A chacun son goût, as they say.
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  fixrman    15 Oct 2014 15:11 
 To:  Manthorp      97 of 177 
41226.97 In reply to 41226.96 
No, actually you are right. I am not disputing we have some problems with our gun laws. They need to be followed.

The discussion got sidetracked to assertions that Americans should give up their guns and guns should be made illegal. Whether or not I agree in immaterial because it isn't up to me. I will say this though, I do not believe giving up rights for safety is a guarantee for more safety - it could mean less.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman    20 Oct 2014 21:42 
 To:  ALL 98 of 177 
41226.98 In reply to 41226.97 
You know, one of the issues here in the U.S. that nobody seems to take account of is that here in the U.S., another reason people have guns is that we live in a much more dangerous and wild environment than folks in the U.K. do.

Here we have dogs, wolves, opossum, moose, bears, mountain lions, coyotes, crocodiles, alligators. Dog attacks alone cost about a billion dollars a year due to injuries and deaths. Even deer cause lots of vehicular damage and about 100 deaths per year. Have to cull the herds.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   20 Oct 2014 21:50 
 To:  fixrman       99 of 177 
41226.99 In reply to 41226.98 
Not too dissimilar to many farmers in the UK legally owning guns.

I imagine most people on here wouldn't disagree that owning guns for protection against wild animals is a reasonable thing.

It's the owning guns for protection against other people that the disagreement more than likely lies.
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)   21 Oct 2014 00:51 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      100 of 177 
41226.100 In reply to 41226.99 
Then they need to stop acting like wild animals!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you don't like donut, then leave it alone. Nobody force you to eat it.
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 From:  fixrman    21 Oct 2014 01:19 
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)      101 of 177 
41226.101 In reply to 41226.100 
Can i hear an Amen?
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 05:49 
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)      102 of 177 
41226.102 In reply to 41226.74 
I'm a horror movie and show freak myself. :)

I agree. You don't have to kill to protect, but if they've got the means to shoot back, I'll be damned if I'm giving them the chance to do it.

I haven't been prepping for the worst and to protect my family so someone of ill intent can break into my home, hurt those I love, and take what I've saved up for them.

I won't kill if I don't have to, but I have to, I will. I'm sure I'm not the only who feels that way these days. Especially with the state of our country and the economy, and it's not just our country having problems.

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 05:50 
 To:  fixrman       103 of 177 
41226.103 In reply to 41226.75 
Quote: 
I don't miss. Ask the squirrel.   ;-)
 :-D

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 05:57 
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)      104 of 177 
41226.104 In reply to 41226.77 
Unfortunately, a lot aren't smart enough to fear the sound of a gun. They're where a lot of the problems are born. They think the owner won't actually shoot them. Sometimes they're right, but sometimes they're wrong, and like you said, bad shit happens. I'm of the opinion it's they're own damn fault for breaking in in the first place, and in the second not getting out quick at the sound of that gun.

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 06:02 
 To:  graphitone      105 of 177 
41226.105 In reply to 41226.80 
Mentally unstable people should not be allowed to handle or own weapons. I'm all in favor or psychological evaluations for people wanting to own a gun, and periodic reevaluations after gun ownership is obtained. They're a big responsibility.

I also don't think kids (under 18) should be able to even handle one without responsible adult supervision. Such as hunting or target shooting with responsible, trained adult.

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 06:04 
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)      106 of 177 
41226.106 In reply to 41226.81 
Quote: 
If I were going to kill someone I think it would be much more fun to chase them around with my car!

You're own weight loss program? Lots of cardio?  :-D

Do you expect you'll get a lot of clients?  :-P

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 06:10 
 To:  fixrman       107 of 177 
41226.107 In reply to 41226.86 
When one of ours turns nuisance we try to trap it, transport it to a state park, then release it into the wild. We don't generally shoot them, unless it's a problem squirrel and won't get in the trap.

So far, we've only had to relocate four of the locals. The rest mind their manners and get to stay.  :-)

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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   22 Oct 2014 06:23 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      108 of 177 
41226.108 In reply to 41226.105 
quote: cybatron
Mentally unstable people should not be allowed to ... own weapons.

They don't. They take their parents' guns to school.

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 From:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)   22 Oct 2014 07:47 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      109 of 177 
41226.109 In reply to 41226.108 
And I think both should be held accountable. The person for what they did, and their parents for what they didn't do. Such as preventing access to their weapons by anyone except them, plus having the ammo stored elsewhere and secured as well.

A lot of people are far too lax when it comes to securing dangerous items from others.

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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   22 Oct 2014 08:02 
 To:  DeannaG (CYBATRON)      110 of 177 
41226.110 In reply to 41226.109 
quote: cybatron
A lot of people are far too lax when it comes to securing dangerous items from others.

And that's the real point, I guess.

Mind you, the whole 'ban guns because they could fall into the wrong hands' argument could apply similarly to cars and matches.

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