Gun Laws - Teh Forum

From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 13:32
To:	milko	61 of 177

41226.61 In reply to 41226.59

I didn't say I would shoot someone over my car being entered; you are putting words in my mouth or jumping to a conclusion. I did say breaking and entering my house.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 13:42
To:	ANT_THOMAS	62 of 177

41226.62 In reply to 41226.57

Quote:

I wouldn't shoot the man.

Set up for tea, perhaps?

Quote:

If someone shoots at you, maybe (probably) it is justifiable.

By then, it may be too late and the point is moot. The difference between you and me is, I am not going to wait. This is an age old argument, but it bears repeating for it is the absolute truth: If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

But this thread is derailed anyway. The thread title is Gun Laws. I have stated already that if the U.S. would simply follow and enforce the laws we already have, we would be in much better shape. We are on a side track of hypothetical situations that, though possible, are still hypothetical. No one actually knows what they will do in a given situation in the heat of the moment, and there are any number of scenarios that can involve guns, knives, baseball/cricket bats, heavy vases, bare hands, wine bottles, books, frying pans or other household items that can be used for killing in the heat of the moment. Every single item I mentioned has been used to kill. One woman in Texas fatally stabbed her boyfriend with a stilleto heel. Killer heels, mmmmmm! :-P

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	milko	6 Oct 2014 13:50
To:	fixrman	63 of 177

41226.63 In reply to 41226.61
Well apologies if I am, you said Quote: We have had people have their cars entered (my neighborhood and right next door) and personal effects stolen, homes entered via screens being cut with a knife and valuables stolen. There have also been prowlers in vans looking for young children and/or women. Which to me is conflating all of those as "will get shot at by me if I see 'em" by the context of the rest of your post. Or otherwise, how is it anything to do with the wisdom of having a gun? Anyway, if that's not what you meant, apologies once again for getting it wrong. Don't shoot! Given that you 'merkans are in the minority on this forum I guess this could all feel a bit like you're being a bit ganged up on by us here so just wanted to say for sure that it isn't. As has long been observed in this thread we can't expect to convince one another, only obtain greater understanding :)

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 14:08
To:	milko	64 of 177

41226.64 In reply to 41226.63

I don't feel ganged up on at all. As a matter of fact, compared to a few years ago when "we" Americans would participate in your Forum (well, really it is ours in the greater scheme of things, as members) I think things have calmed down a bit.

I am much older now and not quite as likely to get incensed at a post I disagree with, now I am more likely to perhaps take the piss, be sarcastic or sardonic in reply - or even (Gasp!) ask for clarification. I think your views would be fairly consistent with how they probably should be.

When I visited there in 2000 via a Land Rover sponsored trip, I found England to be an idyllic, magical place; I was in Stratford-upon-Avon and the "worst" thing I saw was a couple of young women who flashed their boobs as they walked across the (a) bridge of the Avon (forgive me that I do not recall if the bridge has a proper name) - an action I found not objectionable in the least. I found my time there to be quite different than anything I could possibly find in America and I reveled in the differences. The fact that my mum was born there only added to the allure.

So I got to experience some of the best that England has to offer, but by no means complete. I am sure if you came here, I would hope that you would be exposed to our best and never experience anything unpleasant. Fortunately, the pleasant outweighs the unpleasant tenfold. The media unforunately plays up the negative things because it sells.

All this by way of saying, yes - we might actually be better off if we didn't have guns here. But the other side of the coin is, because we have had them for so long, there are far too many people who shouldn't have them as compared to the people who really could have them for a nonviolent use. Some people will look at the recent militarisation of police departments across the U.S. as a sign of foreboding and cling even tighter to their 2nd Amendment rights. If you are interested in it, you can easily find out about it on any U.s. news web site.

Perhaps all we need do is spend more time on vacations intead of the too many hours we spend as a country working and then spending money on crap we can ill afford, creating a perpetual loop of workaholism.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Mizzy	6 Oct 2014 14:24
To:	fixrman	65 of 177

41226.65 In reply to 41226.64
Another point of view I heard recently is that a lot of the gun crime is down to the lack of mental healthcare available to those members of society which can't afford health insurance but their income falls just above medicare levels and even medicare doesn't cover much, I Promise i'm not trolling ;-) I just wanted to get your opinion on that viewpoint, given the huge negative reaction we heard on our news feeds relating to Obamacare. Over here even with our NHS, mental health care is best sought privately , the nhs only tend to get involved once you get to sectioning a person (placed in a secure unit for their own good) which is waaaay past the point a person needs help, so it's not much better here.

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From:	milko	6 Oct 2014 15:48
To:	fixrman	66 of 177

41226.66 In reply to 41226.64
I've been to America a couple of times before: Florida (Orlando and Miami) first, then another time San Francisco -> Yosemite -> Tonopah -> Vegas -> Grand Canyon -> Somewhere-near-LA -> San Francisco. Had an absolutely great time and never a whisper of any trouble. Nobody showed me their boobs though, so now I feel like the USA owes me! As usual while the "general USA" in the world is doing terrible things in all manner of ways, on an individual level you're pretty much all great people. Same as the UK these days probably, I have no illusions about us being any better a force for good. Yes, the recent militarisation of the US Police is insane, fucking school districts with anti-mine personnel carriers and stuff, what the fucking hell is that? I don't know that you lot being able to arm yourselves with various weaponry is going to help much there really. Get yourselves some Army surplus Apache helicopters perhaps.

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 16:23
To:	Mizzy	67 of 177

41226.67 In reply to 41226.65

Well, you have to understand I am Republic in leanings (if that was a secret :-P ) so I am probably much more biased against obamacare than for it.

I do not really have any personal knowledge of how obamacare treats mental illness, but traditionally it hasn't been done well here for a very long time. there's a lot of stigma associated with MI so some people avoid an MI diagnosis to avoid the stigma. It is really only recently that the trend has been better understanding of mental illness; maladies like depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and other related issues.

It might interest you to know that I have suffered from a level of depression from time to time. Many people do not know that I do, but I know it. My wife probably doesn't know it. Why? Because I am able to disguise it fairly well. People who do not see me on a regular basis might not be able to see the difference between me at 100% and me at 50%, because my 50% is sometimes better than others 100%. I am not saying this out of arrogance or anything, it is just that I tend to be an optimistic pragmatist. Yeah, I know - hooey. What I mean by that is I am opyimistic that things will work out fine but pragmatic enough to try to be prepared in case they don't.

Some people turn to porn when depressed, others masturbate excessively or turn to other sexual outlets, some turn to drink, drugs, or crime; others withdraw from society. Back in the day, they called it "coping". Some people do it (coping) by working, other with the aforementioned negative means, others have a recreational outlet.

The fact that our economy is not good does not help in any of these matters and obamacare has not helped at all in that regard. We were told that 40 million people needed insurance, and fewer than 7 million signed up, of which some of them haven't paid a premium yet. Companies are sitting on massive cash reserves because they do not know how the new obamacare scenario will affect them. So there are a couple million people out of work, a couple million more underemployed and hundreds of thousands who have sort of given up actively looking for a job because they fee like they have exhausted their opportunities.

Yet companies will tell you they can't find people. They can't find people because they have outsourced their generally useless anyway Human Resource departments, but at least when they existed they were in-house if one could manage to get to talk to someone. I actuallly just spent over an hour talking to a recruiter for a postion that is probably at least a 40 minute commute away. If one is lucky enough to find and apply for a job (a lot of job descriptions look like they are looking for Purple Cows), the software they use likely throws out a good 50% of likely qualified, excellent candidates to a job whose skills probably transfer well to a different line of work, yet their "keywords" were wrong. Or they lacked experience in that particular field - although in a better economy would possibly be considered due to highly transferrable skills.

OK, so I have wandered off topic a bit right? Not really because all of this ends up in frustration and exacerbates the already fragile condition known as mental illness. Some of these folks commit suicide (it has been on the rise), some turn to those things I mentioned earlier. The Left, who ramrodded obamacare through claim that it isn't a job killer; perhaps "kill" is overdoing it but it is certainly putting a limp in the recovery, as have the massive bailouts to the auto industry and Wall Street/Banks. Had I been able to get a business loan back in 2011-2012, I probably wouldn't have the time to post here. I'd be putting away cases of beer, setting up Oktoberfest gatherings and running the distributorship.

People who work don't have time generally to do the wrong things. Idle hands are the devil's work. Some of it find better outlets than others and some of us keep plodding along regardless, even though were are depressed. Somehow we still know that it is wrong to take what does not belong to you, try to hurt others or otherwise become a problem to others. Some folks just get extremely desperate perhaps, but I don't know how much gun crime is done by folks in the situations I described. I think sometimes there are just bad folks out there that do stuff because they are just inherently evil.

** No wonder nobody answers my CVs if my spelling is as sh*tty as it has been here...

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 16:41
To:	milko	68 of 177

41226.68 In reply to 41226.66

Quote:

Nobody showed me their boobs though, so now I feel like the USA owes me!

We do, and I will gladly show you my boobs although I doubt it would be the same for you. By the time you get here I hope to have lost the bit of relaxation that has caused this bit of manboobery (it isn't like I need a bra or a "mansier", mate :-P ).

"Show" is probably overstating things a bit, since I was a bit far away and could not really see what may have been lovely assets those two had. Is that some sort of a custom to do that in Stratford, upon that gentle, arched bridge? In any event, should you find yourself on the East coast, I shall do as much as I can to ensure you will experience a vision of lovliness appropriate for a chap of your stature. And not by going to Double Visions, either. [G]

Quote:

what the fucking hell is that?

Good intentions gone all wrong. But even at that, the local townships, even with a fancy RV would be no match for guerilla warfare if it came down to it. At least I expect not. I don't think they are allowed to have Apache helicopters and they are a bitch to maintain anyway. If we had Apaches, you guys would be bitching that we had those too. LMAO

No college campus needs an MRAP, APC or 10,000 rounds of ammo for AR-15s and neither does a police precinct. If there is a neighborhood that has gotten out of hand to the degree that all those munitions are required, then the police and local government has allowed it to get that way. Call the National Guard in and clean it out, using bulldozers if necessary.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	milko	6 Oct 2014 17:07
To:	fixrman	69 of 177

41226.69 In reply to 41226.68
I think to be honest if most people had an Apache and managed to get it started up, the first thing they'd do is crash it. They look like quite a challenge to fly. If Stratford has a custom involving boobflashing it's not one I've ever heard of. I can only surmise that once the UK heard you were coming, they were laid on as part of the special treatment we all planned for you.

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 18:36
To:	milko	70 of 177

41226.70 In reply to 41226.69

That warms my heart to no end! I know it was meant as a surprise, but I wish I'd been closer to fully appreciate the view.

Yes, I do know you are joking, but that is exactly the kind of comment I have grown accustomed to in talking with those of the Anglican persuasion, or Angling Saxons as I prefer. It is almost pleasant to be insulted by a Brit. LOL

I know a few helo pilots and they say they are easier than fixed wings to fly - well, after about 300 hours of practice or so. ;-)

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Manthorp	6 Oct 2014 20:57
To:	fixrman	71 of 177

41226.71 In reply to 41226.49
I only pay in brick. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	fixrman	6 Oct 2014 22:04
To:	Manthorp	72 of 177

41226.72 In reply to 41226.71

You are a suave bastard, aren't you?

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Manthorp	7 Oct 2014 09:22
To:	fixrman	73 of 177

41226.73 In reply to 41226.72
I fucking am. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	9 Oct 2014 08:30
To:	ALL	74 of 177

41226.74
Man... I'm glad I was busy cleaning all my guns when this shit got heated! Everyone knows my view on the subject, and I promise to keep the list of requested firearms from teh a secret! About the only thing I have to add is this... Just because you have a gun and shoot someone doesn't mean they instantly fall dead. Well they do if you shoot their brains out, but hey that's probably some kind of delicacy over there you blood pudding monsters! I've said this multiple times, but dammit I'm saying it again! :) Most law abiding gun owners here pray they never have to use it on another person! But if someone found themselves in that position most criminals would get the point with a shot to the knee or leg or hand or ass or whatever. Just avoid the vitals. I'm starting to think you guys don't watch zombie movies or horror films! Don't you see the punishment people can take? Hell, I just rewatched Tropic Thunder last night and fucking Tugg Speedman had to have taken 200 rounds and he even played volleyball with a grenade and didn't die! But he did lose his hands. That was pretty sad I guess... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you don't like donut, then leave it alone. Nobody force you to eat it.

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From:	fixrman	10 Oct 2014 01:12
To:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	75 of 177

41226.75 In reply to 41226.74

I don't miss. Ask the squirrel. ;-)

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Monsoir (PILOTDAN)	10 Oct 2014 06:20
To:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	76 of 177

41226.76 In reply to 41226.74
But if someone found themselves in that position most criminals would get the point with a shot to the knee or leg or hand or ass or whatever. Just avoid the vitals. Which goes against all the rules of shooting people. Aim for centre mass, don't shoot what you don't want to kill etc. Sorry, but that bit is absolute bollocks - no way is someone full of adrenaline and who has probably never fired a shot in anger going to be able to accurately target a body part like that, and if you shoot you know that. Dan Herman

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From:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	10 Oct 2014 12:25
To:	Monsoir (PILOTDAN)	77 of 177

41226.77 In reply to 41226.76
For the most part I agree, but even shooting for center mass isn't an instant death sentence. Unless the intruder or criminal is out of their mind on something even the sight of a gun is sometimes enough to change their minds. Imagine yourself sneaking into a dark house and hearing the sound of someone cocking their weapon. I'd know right away that if I continued bad shit was going to happen and think really hard about what was about to happen. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you don't like donut, then leave it alone. Nobody force you to eat it.

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From:	Monsoir (PILOTDAN)	10 Oct 2014 12:47
To:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	78 of 177

41226.78 In reply to 41226.77
The key point is you never shoot anything you aren't happy killing, though. Yes, shooting them in the chest may not kill them but I'd not take the odds, personally. Don't get me wrong, I'm not even that anti-gun and I've definitely own them if they were legal, but I don't really like the idea of all my neighbors owning them so I prefer the legality being that nobody can. Dan Herman

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From:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	10 Oct 2014 12:51
To:	Monsoir (PILOTDAN)	79 of 177

41226.79 In reply to 41226.78
I don't think there was ever, or will ever be a time when someone in a self defense position would be happy hurting someone. To me it wouldn't matter what the weapon was, I don't like the idea of hurting anyone but I'd do it with whatever weapon I could get if it meant protecting my family. That's part of the idea behind concealed carry. You have to assume everyone is carrying a gun and it should make you think before you decide to carry out a crime on that person. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you don't like donut, then leave it alone. Nobody force you to eat it.

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From:	graphitone	10 Oct 2014 14:03
To:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	80 of 177

41226.80 In reply to 41226.79
'Course it doesn't take away the latent fear that someone potentially concealing a gun also has the potential to go completely postal. Drawings n' that

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