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 From:  fixrman    24 Jan 2016 20:12 
 To:  Manthorp      158 of 177 
41226.158 In reply to 41226.155 
According to [U.S.] Government (!) statistics, of the 30,000 gun deaths a year, 2/3 are suicides.

Some people apparently just need killin'.  :-B
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   31 Jan 2016 05:55 
 To:  ALL 159 of 177 
41226.159 
 
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 From:  Harry (HARRYN)   31 Jan 2016 16:45 
 To:  fixrman       161 of 177 
41226.161 In reply to 41226.158 
quote: fixrman
According to [U.S.] Government (!) statistics, of the 30,000 gun deaths a year, 2/3 are suicides.

Some people apparently just need killin'.  :-B

My guess is that a substantial number of the rest are police shootings.

In a related note, I saw that as of 2015, the police have seized more money from civilians, without a trial or being accused of a crime, than money stolen by "criminals".  Literally, they stop cars going down the road and ask if they are carrying large amounts of cash - then just take it.

The money is split up among police agencies to cover "costs".

In case anyone wonders, it is nearly impossible to recover this money.
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 From:  fixrman    31 Jan 2016 19:45 
 To:  Harry (HARRYN)      162 of 177 
41226.162 In reply to 41226.161 
Quote: 
In a related note, I saw that as of 2015, the police have seized more money from civilians, without a trial or being accused of a crime, than money stolen by "criminals".  Literally, they stop cars going down the road and ask if they are carrying large amounts of cash - then just take it.

Not that I don't believe you - because I do believe that police are only just the other side of the line of being criminal (takes a thief to catch a thief) - but where did you "saw that"?
 

Quote: 
The money is split up among police agencies to cover "costs".

Umm, that one I do NOT believe. If you said that police officers split it up to cover costs - namely, their personal mortgages and vehicle expenses - that, I would believe. Also, if it was reported in the news, those same officers are likely in jail now for committing a crime.

And you lot wonder why USians would want guns? If we give up our guns, who protects us from those who are supposed to protect us? Hmmm?
 

Quote: 
In case anyone wonders, it is nearly impossible to recover this money.

Well, now that your investigative reporting has revealed it, at least it can be stopped and the thieves tried. Either that, or we are going to slide lower on the Corruption Scale (U.S. is ranked 16th worldwide).

Do post your source.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  milko   31 Jan 2016 20:08 
 To:  fixrman       163 of 177 
41226.163 In reply to 41226.162 
There have been numerous reports about it. It's called civil forfeiture. Here's a couple to start with
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/asset-seizures-fuel-police-spending/
http://www.vice.com/read/the-police-can-take-your-cash-without-charging-you-with-a-crime
milko
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 From:  fixrman    1 Feb 2016 12:10 
 To:  milko      164 of 177 
41226.164 In reply to 41226.163 
Very interesting and also predictable - baldly relating a story. Yes, forfeitures can happen, and certainly they do, but people are not without recourse. Trust me, if someone is [stupidly] carrying excessive amounts of cash in their vehicle or on their person, there could be an illegal reason why. People carrying large amounts of cash legally will do something about it. People carrying large amounts of cash illegally likely will not, and they probably will be charged with something as soon as the cops find out what illegal act(s) were committed.

Also very interesting is the second link where the article describes police running amok in situations, overreacting or performing illegal acts in the name of police work.

I suspect that if Americans gave up all their guns, police would return to their "To Protect and to Serve" role...  (fail)
 
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Harry (HARRYN)   1 Feb 2016 18:51 
 To:  fixrman       165 of 177 
41226.165 In reply to 41226.164 
There are a lot of people who don't trust banks, especially after the past 10 years.

We have all watched what happened in Greece, where a government that was spending more than it took in, and was up to its eyeballs from bailing out banks, used deposited cash as "their own money".

People stood in lines at ATMs - every day, so that they could pull enough cash to buy groceries.

No matter if we agree or not, there are many migrants in the US, and many of them cannot even open a bank account.

I can think of a lot of reasons to not put your money in a bank and keep at least some of it as cash, and they don't involve doing anything particularly illegal, except for maybe having some side jobs.  In any event, if they are convicted of a crime, then seizing property is one thing, but taking people's possessions, without other strong proof, or just for minor crimes is not right.

Owning a knife or gun is not proof or even cause that I might have committed a crime.  Same with carrying cash.

Imagine the situation where a single Mom tries to make ends meet by engaging in prostitution.  We don't like to talk about it, but it happens, it is a crime, and it is all done in cash.   Is it really the correct response by police departments to seize this poor woman's hard earned cash, just because she is vulnerable ?

 
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 From:  fixrman    2 Feb 2016 03:36 
 To:  Harry (HARRYN)      166 of 177 
41226.166 In reply to 41226.165 
Quote: 
Is it really the correct response by police departments to seize this poor woman's hard earned cash, just because she is vulnerable ?

I think you answered your own question there with one word: Crime.
 

Quote: 
Mom tries to make ends meet by engaging in prostitution.  We don't like to talk about it, but it happens, it is a crime, and it is all done in cash.



Is it fair for police departments to seize cash from a drug dealer just because he was desperate and turned to drug sales instead of a regular job? Perhaps the police should just bring the guy in, deliver the cash to his wife/kids and concentrate on real issues, like speeding or traffic violations.

Seriously?

 

Quote: 
No matter if we agree or not, there are many migrants in the US, and many of them cannot even open a bank account.

Are the migrants here legally? The ones I know who come here don't want a bank account because they don't want to be traced. Tough darts.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Harry (HARRYN)   2 Feb 2016 16:09 
 To:  fixrman       167 of 177 
41226.167 In reply to 41226.166 
If a person is not convicted of a crime, nor accused of a crime, what basis is there for seizing their property?  That is a fundamental right in the US Constitution, similar to the gun ownership aspect we both hold as important.

Anyone can be accused of a crime, and probably convicted of "something".  In the nearly 30 years of living in CA, they average 1500 new state laws per year, so over 40K laws, on top of what we already had.  What are the odds that the average person has any idea what these are ?

Is it really the same basis, to seize property, especially cash, for misdemeanors vs serious felonies ?  Are you saying it is ok for a police officer to pull over your wife because she made a small driving error, and take your paycheck while she was on the way to deposit it in the bank?   It was against the law - right ?

Suppose you are on your way to the shooting range with 3 of your nicest rifles, and you do a rolling stop.  Is it ok for the police officer to "suspect that you might be on your way to a crime", seize your guns, keep one for the local agency, give one to the FBI, and the other to the state police? 

After that, they can spend up to 1 year before making a "decision" on whether or not to charge you, during which time you cannot legally do much of anything.  Regardless of if they decide to charge you or not, after this year period, you have to hire a lawyer to sue them to get back your rifles.  This process can drag out another 1 - 2 years, and typically costs $2-5K in legal fees.

Are you really sure that you support this concept?
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 From:  fixrman    3 Feb 2016 03:23 
 To:  Harry (HARRYN)      168 of 177 
41226.168 In reply to 41226.167 
Quote: 
Are you saying it is ok for a police officer to pull over your wife because she made a small driving error, and take your paycheck

A paycheck isn't cash. Mine were hardly enough to warrant suspicion, even when I was at the top of my earning level. Now, if my wife were to be pulled over after a minor driving infraction and allowed(!) a LEO to search the vehicle*, whereupon the officer discovered my trunk was full of cash, I'd have some 'splainin' to do. Especially to my wife.  (nod)

*I have never advised anyone to ever allow a vehicle search for any reason. All of my vehicles were bought pre-owned; how do I know what the previous owner stashed under the carpets or somewhere in a hidden compartment?

 

Quote: 
Suppose you are on your way to the shooting range with 3 of your nicest rifles,

The one rifle I own would probably cause suspicion, especially if I had ammunition for it. It is a sniper rifle, albeit an old one. If they saw the targets in the back, they'd know I don't miss.

 

Quote: 
 
and you do a rolling stop.


Can't afford that. I drive for an occupation.


Quote: 
 
In the nearly 30 years of living in CA, they average 1500 new state laws per year,



I don't live in Cali, friend. I wouldn't live in California, way too liberal for my tastes. Pelosi is out there. OUT THERE. I'd suggest you move. Tomorrow, or sooner.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   3 Feb 2016 08:23 
 To:  fixrman       169 of 177 
41226.169 In reply to 41226.168 
Too liberal in what sense?
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 From:  fixrman    4 Feb 2016 02:45 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      170 of 177 
41226.170 In reply to 41226.169 
Come on, man. California.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS   4 Feb 2016 07:05 
 To:  fixrman       171 of 177 
41226.171 In reply to 41226.170 
Come on, man. Explain.
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 From:  fixrman    9 Feb 2016 02:40 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS      172 of 177 
41226.172 In reply to 41226.171 
It's California. What else is there to explain? CA is like cereal: Out there, what ain't fruits and nuts is flakes.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   9 Feb 2016 18:10 
 To:  fixrman       173 of 177 
41226.173 In reply to 41226.172 
Sugar Puffs, Coco Pops, Lucky Charms, Start.
 
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 From:  Manthorp   10 Feb 2016 00:47 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      174 of 177 
41226.174 In reply to 41226.173 
I blame the fucking crumpets.
"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  fixrman    10 Feb 2016 02:53 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      175 of 177 
41226.175 In reply to 41226.173 
They're terrible for you.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   10 Feb 2016 21:03 
 To:  fixrman       176 of 177 
41226.176 In reply to 41226.175 
You're terrible for you.
 
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 From:  fixrman    11 Feb 2016 02:58 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      177 of 177 
41226.177 In reply to 41226.176 
 (fail)
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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