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From:	fixrman	18 Jan 2016 11:59
To:	Manthorp	146 of 177

41226.146 In reply to 41226.145

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Why do you think the billionaire Donald Trump is standing for president? Because he's opening a new front in his tireless campaign for the ordinary citizen, for which we so much evidence in his past?

So answer me this: If Trump is all about the greed, why would he want the job of POTUS? For him, it doesn't pay that well. Tell me, what president have you seen in the past - or any politician for that matter in history - who had a "tireless campaign for the ordinary citizen"?

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You have a mind, Fixrman, use it.

Right back at you. If you think that your neat and tidy analysis - albeit too simplistic - is the sum total of the American situation, you are fooling yourself.

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Who caused the 2007 Recession? Who paid for it?

I can't wait for you to tell me that one. Please, let me hear it from you first, because it will be interesting to see what you actually say about that.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	milko	18 Jan 2016 14:10
To:	fixrman	147 of 177

41226.147 In reply to 41226.146
quote: fixrman So answer me this: If Trump is all about the greed, why would he want the job of POTUS? For him, it doesn't pay that well. Tell me, what president have you seen in the past - or any politician for that matter in history - who had a "tireless campaign for the ordinary citizen"? To make sure the laws continue to favour him and his rich cronies, obviously. Can't be having change helping everyone else get a fair break, that'd cost him some fractional percentage of his worth!

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From:	CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)	18 Jan 2016 14:51
To:	milko	148 of 177

41226.148 In reply to 41226.147
Quote: To make sure the laws continue to favour him and his rich cronies, obviously. I don't think it's even that complicated. Trump craves power and status. For himself. He's a true narcissist. Even for the wealthy elites, his status is of a bad joke, a tv-celebrity fraud with bad hair, and he deep down knows it. That makes him really, really angry. He wants payback for that denial of acceptance and recognition, so he is going over their heads to the disenfranchised riffraff who actually watch his brain-dead form of 'entertainment' and are only too willing to swallow his guff. They want payback too. ---- "There is no upside to Ebola."

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From:	Manthorp	19 Jan 2016 10:47
To:	fixrman	149 of 177

41226.149 In reply to 41226.146
Quote: So answer me this: If Trump is all about the greed, why would he want the job of POTUS? For him, it doesn't pay that well. As Milko says, his agenda is to change business & financial law to benefit his current and future endeavours. He will say anything he thinks will optimise his chances of winning. What he says will have little correlation with what he will do. Quote: What president have you seen in the past - or any politician for that matter in history - who had a "tireless campaign for the ordinary citizen" I can't speak for US presidents, because my knowledge of US history doesn't extend to their pre-election careers, but Ghandi didn't do too shabby a job. Depending on your definition of 'politician' I'd cite Pope Francis, too. The there was William Wilberforce, Emmeline Pankhurst, Jose Mujica... Quote: If you think that your neat and tidy analysis - albeit too simplistic - is the sum total of the American situation, you are fooling yourself. Of course I don't. But you clearly don't think I'm wrong: you criticise it only for being simplistic, not incorrect. Quote: I can't wait for you to tell me that one. The recession was caused by the recklessness of the financial industries taking on more risk than they had reserves to cover. Quote: In its "Declaration of the Summit on Financial Markets and the World Economy," dated 15 November 2008, leaders of the Group of 20 cited the following causes: During a period of strong global growth, growing capital flows, and prolonged stability earlier this decade, market participants sought higher yields without an adequate appreciation of the risks and failed to exercise proper due diligence. At the same time, weak underwriting standards, unsound risk management practices, increasingly complex and opaque financial products, and consequent excessive leverage combined to create vulnerabilities in the system. Policy-makers, regulators and supervisors, in some advanced countries, did not adequately appreciate and address the risks building up in financial markets, keep pace with financial innovation, or take into account the systemic ramifications of domestic regulatory actions. It was paid for by the poor and middle classes: Quote: The United States has seen an increasing concentration of wealth to the detriment of the middle class and the poor with the younger generations being especially affected. The middle class dropped from 61% of the population in 1971 to 51% in 2011 as the upper class increased its take of the national income from 29% in 1970 to 46% in 2010. The share for the middle class dropped to 45%, down from 62% while total income for the poor dropped to 9% from 10%. Since the number of poor increased during this period the smaller piece of the pie (down to 9% from 10%) is spread over a greater portion of the population.^[108] The portion of national wealth owned by the middle class and poor has also dropped as their portion of the national income has dropped, making it more difficult to accumulate wealth. The younger generation, which would be just starting their wealth accumulation, has been the most hard hit. Those under 35 are 68% less wealthy than they were in 1984, while those over 55 are 10% wealthier.^[109] Much of this concentration has happened since the start of the Great Recession. In 2009, the wealthiest 20% of households controlled 87.2% of all wealth, up from 85.0% in 2007. The top 1% controlled 35.6% of all wealth, up from 34.6% in 2007.^[110] The share of the bottom 80% fell from 15% to 12.8%, dropping 15%. HTH. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	Manthorp	19 Jan 2016 13:12
To:	fixrman	150 of 177

41226.150 In reply to 41226.146
Here's a synopsis of yesterday's Parliamentary debate on the odious buffoon. Thought you'd be pleased to see the UK discusses him at the highest level. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	fixrman	21 Jan 2016 01:20
To:	milko	151 of 177

41226.151 In reply to 41226.147

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To make sure the laws continue to favour him and his rich cronies, obviously.

And that differs from obama... How?

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	21 Jan 2016 01:31
To:	Manthorp	152 of 177

41226.152 In reply to 41226.150

Your Parliamentary actions are nothing more than a tempest in a teacup, bone china at that.

Who cares? Who cares that Trump is running for POTUS at this point? Reminds me of a joke:

A brave asks the chief how he comes up with all of the names of the newborn babies, since the chief is the one who decides.

Chief: If I wake up in morning, baby is born and snow is falling gently, I name baby Snow Falling Gently. If baby is born and I see a hawk flying over, I name baby Hawk Flying Over. But tell me, Two Dogs Fucking, why are you so interested?

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Manthorp	21 Jan 2016 09:36
To:	fixrman	153 of 177

41226.153 In reply to 41226.152
Quote: Chief: If I wake up in morning, baby is born and snow is falling gently, I name baby Snow Falling Gently. If baby is born and I see a hawk flying over, I name baby Hawk Flying Over. But tell me, Two Dogs Fucking, why are you so interested? If baby is born and I fart loudly, I name baby Trump. "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	JonCooper	21 Jan 2016 10:30
To:	fixrman	154 of 177

41226.154 In reply to 41226.152
totally impressed with your ability to ask a question, completely ignore the answer and then fly off on a totally different tangent as if that was the topic all along - you should think about becoming a politician! Jon

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From:	Manthorp	23 Jan 2016 17:45
To:	fixrman	155 of 177

41226.155 In reply to 41226.1
Were you aware of this statistic? Among legal gun carriers, for every fatal shooting of a criminal in self-defence, there are two fatal accidental shootings and 78 suicides. So that's, what? 80 innocent deaths that wouldn't have taken place without gun ownership, for every life saved in self-defence. Then, of course, there are the massacres to take into account. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/ "We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked." James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951 www.mynameislegion.org

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From:	fixrman	24 Jan 2016 19:58
To:	Manthorp	156 of 177

41226.156 In reply to 41226.153

Sometimes a fart sounds like, Truuuuuummmpp! :'-D

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	24 Jan 2016 20:10
To:	JonCooper	157 of 177

41226.157 In reply to 41226.154

Can't do it, love muffin! I have scruples, y'see... Even though I exercise my right to own a gun, I respect your desire not to have one. And I understand why; I really do. Somewhere in the middle the answer lies.

I am not prostitute.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	fixrman	24 Jan 2016 20:12
To:	Manthorp	158 of 177

41226.158 In reply to 41226.155

According to [U.S.] Government (!) statistics, of the 30,000 gun deaths a year, 2/3 are suicides.

Some people apparently just need killin'. :-B

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	31 Jan 2016 05:55
To:	ALL	159 of 177

41226.159
, , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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Message 41226.160 was deleted

From:	Harry (HARRYN)	31 Jan 2016 16:45
To:	fixrman	161 of 177

41226.161 In reply to 41226.158
quote: fixrman According to [U.S.] Government (!) statistics, of the 30,000 gun deaths a year, 2/3 are suicides. Some people apparently just need killin'. :-B My guess is that a substantial number of the rest are police shootings. In a related note, I saw that as of 2015, the police have seized more money from civilians, without a trial or being accused of a crime, than money stolen by "criminals". Literally, they stop cars going down the road and ask if they are carrying large amounts of cash - then just take it. The money is split up among police agencies to cover "costs". In case anyone wonders, it is nearly impossible to recover this money.

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From:	fixrman	31 Jan 2016 19:45
To:	Harry (HARRYN)	162 of 177

41226.162 In reply to 41226.161

Quote:

In a related note, I saw that as of 2015, the police have seized more money from civilians, without a trial or being accused of a crime, than money stolen by "criminals". Literally, they stop cars going down the road and ask if they are carrying large amounts of cash - then just take it.

Not that I don't believe you - because I do believe that police are only just the other side of the line of being criminal (takes a thief to catch a thief) - but where did you "saw that"?

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The money is split up among police agencies to cover "costs".

Umm, that one I do NOT believe. If you said that police officers split it up to cover costs - namely, their personal mortgages and vehicle expenses - that, I would believe. Also, if it was reported in the news, those same officers are likely in jail now for committing a crime.

And you lot wonder why USians would want guns? If we give up our guns, who protects us from those who are supposed to protect us? Hmmm?

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In case anyone wonders, it is nearly impossible to recover this money.

Well, now that your investigative reporting has revealed it, at least it can be stopped and the thieves tried. Either that, or we are going to slide lower on the Corruption Scale (U.S. is ranked 16th worldwide).

Do post your source.

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	milko	31 Jan 2016 20:08
To:	fixrman	163 of 177

41226.163 In reply to 41226.162
There have been numerous reports about it. It's called civil forfeiture. Here's a couple to start with http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/asset-seizures-fuel-police-spending/ http://www.vice.com/read/the-police-can-take-your-cash-without-charging-you-with-a-crime

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From:	fixrman	1 Feb 2016 12:10
To:	milko	164 of 177

41226.164 In reply to 41226.163

Very interesting and also predictable - baldly relating a story. Yes, forfeitures can happen, and certainly they do, but people are not without recourse. Trust me, if someone is [stupidly] carrying excessive amounts of cash in their vehicle or on their person, there could be an illegal reason why. People carrying large amounts of cash legally will do something about it. People carrying large amounts of cash illegally likely will not, and they probably will be charged with something as soon as the cops find out what illegal act(s) were committed.

Also very interesting is the second link where the article describes police running amok in situations, overreacting or performing illegal acts in the name of police work.

I suspect that if Americans gave up all their guns, police would return to their "To Protect and to Serve" role... (fail)

Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?

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From:	Harry (HARRYN)	1 Feb 2016 18:51
To:	fixrman	165 of 177

41226.165 In reply to 41226.164
There are a lot of people who don't trust banks, especially after the past 10 years. We have all watched what happened in Greece, where a government that was spending more than it took in, and was up to its eyeballs from bailing out banks, used deposited cash as "their own money". People stood in lines at ATMs - every day, so that they could pull enough cash to buy groceries. No matter if we agree or not, there are many migrants in the US, and many of them cannot even open a bank account. I can think of a lot of reasons to not put your money in a bank and keep at least some of it as cash, and they don't involve doing anything particularly illegal, except for maybe having some side jobs. In any event, if they are convicted of a crime, then seizing property is one thing, but taking people's possessions, without other strong proof, or just for minor crimes is not right. Owning a knife or gun is not proof or even cause that I might have committed a crime. Same with carrying cash. Imagine the situation where a single Mom tries to make ends meet by engaging in prostitution. We don't like to talk about it, but it happens, it is a crime, and it is all done in cash. Is it really the correct response by police departments to seize this poor woman's hard earned cash, just because she is vulnerable ?

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