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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  patch     
39653.20 In reply to 39653.19 

Tends to include bank holidays.

 

I think I get 30 plus bank holidays. But I do work for a university.

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 From:  patch  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
39653.21 In reply to 39653.20 
Some of the people in my office have worked for the NHS for so long that they get 35 days holiday per year. I start getting surprised when they actually show up.
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 From:  Monsoir (PILOTDAN)  
 To:  patch     
39653.22 In reply to 39653.19 
As Ant says, the minimums include Bank Holidays because there is no requirement for employers to actually give them off.
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  patch     
39653.23 In reply to 39653.21 
It's an odd one at my place. Due to the atmosphere (a good relaxed one where people enjoy work), my boss and my colleague I doubt I'll take them all off....because no one else seems to. When I do take decent amounts off (which I'm entitled to) I feel like I'm taking the piss!
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  patch     
39653.24 In reply to 39653.19 

It's 28 days per year including Bank Holidays.

 

Rest of Europe tends to get 28-ish days + bank holidays :\




                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
39653.25 In reply to 39653.23 
Would you turn up to work if they didn't pay you? Because essentially that is what you're doing by not taking your holiday entitlement :C



                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  koswix      
39653.26 In reply to 39653.25 
I know it's exactly that, and I should take more but I'm sure you can understand that is does feel difficult when you're the only one who seems to be going on holiday! I could do with working out what I have left.
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
39653.27 In reply to 39653.26 

Not your fault if your colleagues are morons!

 

Great idea that for employers, actually, give great holiday allowances and then make sure people feel so embarrassed that they never actually take them.

 

Incidentally, if you or your colleagues are taking less than 28 days a year, and then you have some big chemically accident and fatigue is attributed as part of the cause... your employer's in the shit.




                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  koswix      
39653.28 In reply to 39653.27 
Are there any laws concerning workmen doing noisy work (drilling/banging/etc) elsewhere in the building creating an unsuitable environment?

(i.e. is an employer allowed to do that during working hours, or is there any requirement that it be limited to before/after.)
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
39653.29 In reply to 39653.28 
Good question. We've had workmen in the whole department for probably close to 9 months. And a lot of work is going on in the room above.
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
39653.30 In reply to 39653.28 

Your workplace has to be safe and free from unnecessary hazards.

 

If the workmen are causing your work place to be unsafe, or creating unnecessary hazards, then you could make them stop.

 

For instance, if the noise created by them banging their tools (Y,J) was sufficient to cause damage to your hearing, your employer might choose to issue you with ear defenders. Obviously they would then also need to make necessary adjustments to the fire alarm so that it provides suitable visual cues (big, spinny, flashy red lights would be sufficient) so that in the event of a fire, perhaps caused by a workman accidentally drilling through a water pipe and causing it to leak on a damaged power cable, you don't just sit at your desk until you're burnt to a crisp.

 

As long as they are not adversely affecting your health, they can pretty much do what they want.




                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
39653.31 In reply to 39653.29 
We had it for ... I can't remember how long, but it took them ages to first do stuff upstairs (where the lower floor then moved up to), and then afterwards bugger about downstairs (where another office moved to).

Several weeks of which there was a lot of noise that made it very hard to concentrate with all the noise, but no direct safety things. Several complaints to HR resulted in being told the noisy work would be done outside working hours, but that never really seemed to be true.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  koswix      
39653.32 In reply to 39653.30 
There's another thing I'm curious of - is there a legal requirement for a certain number of fire drill per year?

And if you know it's a drill and refuse to stop working, is there anything that could be done?
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
39653.33 In reply to 39653.31 
You'd have a decent defence there if they tried to discipline you for under performing. Assuming your performance only went shit during the period work was being done, and would be helped greatly if you'd complained to HR about the distractions etc.



                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  koswix   
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
39653.34 In reply to 39653.32 

No a legal requirement for the number, but there are guidelines issued by Firesafe - the number they recommend depends on the type of environment you work in. An office would clearly warrant fewer drills than, say, a manufacturing facility where flammable gasses etc. are in use.

 

If you refused to comply with the drill I'd expect you'd be in breach of contract - the part about complying with any reasonable requests made of you (and no matter what you think, a fire drill is a reasonable request). Whether it was misconduct or gross-misconduct would probably depend on the terms and policies of your employer, but I'd expect gross-misconduct. If you were preventing your employer from carrying out adequate fire safety training, thereby getting them in trouble potentially with the fire brigade, Health & Safety Executive and their insurance companies, they'd definitely have reasonable grounds to sack you.




                                                
                                                
                                                
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  koswix      
39653.35 In reply to 39653.34 
We tend to have one or two drills a year but far more actual fire alarms each year. To be honest we're not always sure if it's a drill or an actual alarm. Thankfully we have a zoned system with an intermittent alarm when it's elsewhere in the building and we should be ready to leave because it's often just a fuck up or false alarm.
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 From:  bear baiter (BEARBAITER)  
 To:  Monsoir (PILOTDAN)     
39653.36 In reply to 39653.6 
Only if he's gay!
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  koswix      
39653.37 In reply to 39653.34 
You're more fun than Wikipedia. :)

I don't think we had a huge number of drills, but it was still more than I'd expect from an office. Probably necessary due to the high levels of staff turnover in some departments.

Was always tempted to ignore them (guess it's a good thing I didn't), though I think there was one when a couple of co-workers were doing critical server work and kept going. (Meaning either the floor wasn't cleared properly or they told the wardens what they were doing was too important to interrupt.)

What we actually had a lot of were just fire alarms ringing when it wasn't a drill (no idea if it was testing it worked, or just incompetent electricians). Initially a few people would stand up and look about, but after a while people just ignored the alarm unless the assorted fire wardens stood up and put their fluorescent jackets on (since they obviously knew when drills were planned).

Of course, if there had ever been an actual real fire, I guess everyone would assume it was the alarm being tested, and the fire brigade would turn up to an office full of people working away.
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 From:  Serg (NUKKLEAR)  
 To:  koswix      
39653.38 In reply to 39653.1 
If I am asked to be available on-call on (say) a Sunday, this obviously means that I can't go anywhere that doesn't have a PC with Internet access etc as I would have to VPN in if I were to be called - does this count as normal working hours due to the restrictions on leaving my house? If not, that's ver' silly.
[...Insert Brain Here...]
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  koswix      
39653.39 In reply to 39653.27 

It's not his fault, or that of his colleagues, if they have such a camaraderie, and enjoy their work so much that going to work doesn't seem like going to work.

 

I used to feel like that when I was in research. Sometimes. When it's going well, well you just gotta .... know!

bastard by name, bastard by nature

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