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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   3 Dec 2011 21:26 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      61 of 75 
39145.61 In reply to 39145.59 
quote:
using raster applications for vector drawing is intrinsically illogical

Why? Or How?

(I don't see the illogicality.)
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   3 Dec 2011 21:31 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      62 of 75 
39145.62 In reply to 39145.59 
Aye, I agree entirely. But I think part of the problem is that Photoshop is the default standard for raster editing of all kinds and it's not really very good at most of those tasks. It's good at what it's good at (pro-level graphic design production) but, due to rampant piracy, used for everything.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   3 Dec 2011 21:43 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      63 of 75 
39145.63 In reply to 39145.60 
quote:
His wording was more specifically along the lines of "I don't care if software is good. It has to be free, but it doesn't have to be good.
Yes, and I'm sure it was in response to some question where a context was provided for what constitutes good. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence will realise that he, obviously, doesn't want shit software. He just has different criteria for what constitutes 'good'.
quote:
Freedom should come first, but unless it's also good then it's not going to help promote the cause.
And you're still not getting it. He doesn't separate 'Free' and 'good'. Free is a prerequisite of it being good. Then as it gets more functional, it gets better. But if it's not Free then he's not interested at all. And that's fine, that's his view. He's not wrong, you just disagree about what constitutes 'good'.
quote:
Open Source ultimately means that binary releases must be accompanied by relevant source (and ability to build).
No, it really doesn't. It means what the OSD says it means. Which can't be boiled down to a sentence as it's pared down about as far as it can be in the OSD itself.
quote:
There is no requirement of any Open Source license that development take place in public nor that (binary or code) preview releases are made.
The first part is a meaningless claim, once something is distributed you have to make the source accessible which all but necessitates 'development in public'. The second part is an irrelevance. What the fuck does a 'preview release' have to do with anything. What I said was that since GIMP is open source you can download the source and compile it yourself if you so wish.
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   3 Dec 2011 21:45 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      64 of 75 
39145.64 In reply to 39145.62 

I think the piracy and 'used for everything' are different issues, not linked...other than by people's inability to grasp what a tool is intended for possibly being linked to their level of morality.

 

The funny thing is that on DPR, most people complaining about Adobe's licensing changes are using PS for photo editing, when there are better applications out there. PS shines when you want to do something more that colour correction or cropping, especially in terms of montage or advanced image editing. I'd be surprised if more that 10% of PS users use it to the best of its capabilities.

bastard by name, bastard by nature
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   3 Dec 2011 21:47 
 To:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)      65 of 75 
39145.65 In reply to 39145.64 
Again, I agree. WHAT IS HAPPENING TRUFFY I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   3 Dec 2011 22:19 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      66 of 75 
39145.66 In reply to 39145.63 
That one guy that works on GIMP.

He could take the 2.6 source, work on his own machine and/or with collaborators, without any of them telling anyone what they're doing, without any of them releasing any source to the outside world. When Martin's happy he can release 2.8 version.

It would still be open source.

There is no requirement for him to release incremental versions.

If he only made available the source at each major release, I could not go and get a snapshot of the source now and build it, but he would still be working within the open source model.


The other side of the coin: Microsoft could suddenly decide to start doing nightly IE10 preview releases.

They don't need to release the source to make it possible for anyone to go get the latest snapshop and installing it right now.

And the odds of Microsoft ever releasing IE as open source is slim.


So going back to this:
quote: you
You can install it currently if you like because it's open source.

The reason I can install it currently is NOT because it is open source.

It's because the developers have chosen to make it possible for others to get the latest version of the software.

Doing this makes sense for open source but is not required by open source, and nor is being open source a pre-requisite for doing it.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   3 Dec 2011 22:19 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      67 of 75 
39145.67 In reply to 39145.63 
quote:

quote:
Open Source ultimately means that binary releases must be accompanied by relevant source (and ability to build).


No, it really doesn't. It means what the OSD says it means. Which can't be boiled down to a sentence as it's pared down about as far as it can be in the OSD itself.


Shut up, it's a good enough summary.

You can add "and must not discriminate" to cover points 1,5..10 if you really want.
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   3 Dec 2011 22:37 
 To:  ALL 68 of 75 
39145.68 
You are all insane.

----
"Most young adults go online for no good reason at all" – study
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)   3 Dec 2011 22:39 
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)      69 of 75 
39145.69 In reply to 39145.68 
YouWe.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   3 Dec 2011 22:45 
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)      70 of 75 
39145.70 In reply to 39145.66 
You're just being a dick.

No one's claimed that 'developing in public' is a prerequisite of being Open Source. It is, however, usually a result of it. The source code being publicly available is a prerequisite. And since it's easier to update a GIT repo than to maintain a public and private branch, in the vastly overwhelming number of cases, Open Source stuff is developed in public.

Since is it Open Source you can download the source code and compile it yourself. In most cases, as in the case of GIMP, you also have access to the development code and can download and compile that. Therefore it is perfectly fucking acceptable to say, particularly in a specific situation where it is the case that, since it is open source, you can get it.

If it were proprietary you would not, in the vastly overwhelming number of cases, have access to the source code and be free to do this. I was making a distinction between common methodologies, not quibbling about licenses like a twat.
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 From:  af (CAER)   4 Dec 2011 00:56 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      71 of 75 
39145.71 In reply to 39145.55 
Yeah I don't think that'd help much - I think the whole UI for this sort of application needs to be rethought.
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   4 Dec 2011 01:10 
 To:  af (CAER)      72 of 75 
39145.72 In reply to 39145.71 
Aye, I agree.
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)   4 Dec 2011 18:03 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      73 of 75 
39145.73 In reply to 39145.72 

I agree with your agreement.

 

ZOMG. XEN, I THINK IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. :O

bastard by name, bastard by nature
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 From:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)   5 Dec 2011 09:44 
 To:  ANT_THOMAS       74 of 75 
39145.74 In reply to 39145.1 
I remember reading something about a UI plugin for GIMP that rearranges the menus and buttons so it mimics Photoshop (assuming you're more used to that). Might help?

Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic, And so am I
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   5 Dec 2011 11:09 
 To:  ALL 75 of 75 
39145.75 
http://www.gimpusers.com/news/00388-gimp-2-7-4-soon-gimp-2-8-follows

----
"Most young adults go online for no good reason at all" – study
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