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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  af (CAER)     
38891.21 In reply to 38891.19 
Regarding subjects... I'm also not generally moved by 'narrative'. I don't care about 'here is a working man who has lived here his whole life and you can read his life story in his pose' kinda stuff. I find that... sort of arrogant and patronising. I mean photography's always had this problem of an implied veracity or fidelity with reality, and the tension between that and 'constructing' an image - creating meaning rather than simple depiction.

I'm rambling. I like snapshots. Photos that don't try to be more than simple depiction (and depiction of something worth depicting) or recording (<- I realise that's a dodgy term here. It's an intent of the photographernot a property of the photo). And I like it to look that way - like something shot from the hip without much thought, sketchy and inexact and suggestive.
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 From:  af (CAER)  
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
38891.22 In reply to 38891.20 
Ah reet, I think I understand what you mean. By 'non-SLR', then, I'd guess you mean small-sensor cameras with fixed lenses (like on phones), which, yeah, have an innate quality: deep depth of field (everything in focus), limited dynamic range, harsh tonal transitions, etc.

The whole "out of focus, blurry, scratchy, noisy, washed out images" thing isn't really innate to any modern dedicated camera (i.e. a device designed primarily for taking pictures), so more often than not it's added after the picture's taken (witness the popularity of Hipstamatic and Plastic Bullet).

Why do you find the pictures you described (in your next post) arrogant and patronising?

As for the problem of implied veracity, well, tbh I wish the whole "the camera never lies" things had never come about, although it has led to some interesting things that deliberately confront the concept.

It seems to me that the kinds of photos you like are street photography pictures, this sorta thing:


That's the kinda thing I like too, although that seems to be a minority opinion if camera forums are anything to go by (that picture would be derided for being soft, noisy and badly-framed).
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  af (CAER)     
38891.23 In reply to 38891.22 
I do like the noisiness and badly-framed-ness of that but not the subject. It's too... how can I put this. It's trying too hard. It's obvious and trite. Also I think you can tell when it's an intentionally jaunty angle or a renowned photographer very self-consciously using a disposable camera or something - which again becomes contrived and nasty. (so yeah, adding noise intentionally after the fact is definitely offputting. And aye, it's shame even phone cameras are so 'good' now :C ).

Patronising. Because it's making arrogant claims it can't live up to and expecting me to swallow that. It's trying (if only implicitly) to be both an 'honest' and 'true' recording of 'reality' and a constructed image/meaning/narrative at the same time. I feel like the ambiguity (and the viewer) is being exploited. Drawing (which includes painting and sculpture and so on)feels more 'honest', it doesn't make the same claims.

The only 'art' photos I've ever liked are those of... oh man what's his name. Richard Billingham. Stuff like:



There's narrative there, but it's not shoving it in your face, it's gentle and open-ended. Evocative rather than... declamatory. And visually beautiful, there's an almost baroque visual intensity/richness to it. The flatness is also intriguing. I dunno, his images just work on me.
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
38891.24 In reply to 38891.23 
That's an awful photo. Too busy and no point of focus. I actually like the one that Caer posted, although I'd prefer it without such a smug look on the boy's face.

bastard by name, bastard by nature

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 From:  steve  
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)     
38891.25 In reply to 38891.23 
I love Richard Billingham (he came to my uni to give a seminar). I think strong narrative is so important in photography trying to stand up as art. It's not just throw-away photographs of strangers either (like Martin Parr, who I like-a-little-bit but not very much since I read more about him and his past: it makes it seem like he's looking down his nose at his subjects) but in this case - his family.

There is a terrifying Japanese photographer who's a bit similar to Billingham, just with more polaroids of vaginas, if I ever remember I will tell you.

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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  steve     
38891.26 In reply to 38891.25 
I thoroughly disagree about narrative but am glad you like Billingham :Y
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 From:  99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)  
 To:  steve     
38891.27 In reply to 38891.26 
...and I like vaginas! (manthorp)

bastard by name, bastard by nature

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