War & PoliticsTottenham - what gives?

 

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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
38778.154 In reply to 38778.153 
No, but I am saying that the store owners could put an end to it much faster. Possibly with more fatalities, possibly with rioters getting smart very fast.
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 From:  patch  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.155 In reply to 38778.154 
Yay! Dead people! The perfect way to end anything.
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  patch     
38778.156 In reply to 38778.155 
They don't have to die. How can you die when you are home minding your business?
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  ALL
38778.157 In reply to 38778.156 
Amazon UK's top sellers.
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 From:  patch  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.158 In reply to 38778.156 
True, the availability of guns certainly calmed down those tensions in LA in 1992.
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  patch     
38778.159 In reply to 38778.158 
This doesn't look too out of balance to me. More like natural selection.
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 From:  patch  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.160 In reply to 38778.159 
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.161 In reply to 38778.154 

We don't need guns - we just need more people like those store owners - i.e. actual communities that stand up for each other.

 

If people were like that everywhere - and if the Met weren't apparently so slow and useless - this probably wouldn't have gone as far and for so long as it has done.

 


If looters are constantly turned away from being able to loot, they'll eventually get bored, but every time they're successful it empowers them to keep going, and potentially get do more severe things.

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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  patch     
38778.162 In reply to 38778.160 
That it wasn't a war zone. For the amount of guns in that area the entire west coast could have been wiped out.

Most people who have grown up with guns only use them as a last resort and I think those number reflect that.

When this is all said and done we will compare deaths to deaths and property damage to property damage.
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
38778.163 In reply to 38778.161 
Everyone needs guns! Guns are fun!
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.164 In reply to 38778.163 
Guns are no doubt incredibly fun.

Doesn't mean they should be given to mentally unstable people though.
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
38778.165 In reply to 38778.164 
You shouldn't talk about the Taliban like that.
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 From:  patch  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.166 In reply to 38778.162 

Well, no, it wasn't technically a war zone. But it isn't here, either.

 

I'm not sure that comparing the number of guns with the number of deaths is a valid way of demostrating anything. You may as well count all the kitchen knives available in London and then wonder why everyone inside the M25 isn't wandering around full of holes.

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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  patch     
38778.167 In reply to 38778.166 
It's the only there I have to use for comparison. I can't compare how many thefts were prevented because the owner of the shop was sitting in the doorway with a shotgun and deterred a group of thugs that had in mind to loot his store. They didn't keep records of that.

My original point, I think anyway, was that you use bats and pipes and knives so why the fuck not just get guns? If you want someone dead you have ways to make it happen.
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 From:  JonCooper  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.168 In reply to 38778.167 
stores have insurance, tbh I'd rather Rumbelows lost a few TVs than anyone get shot

Jon
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.169 In reply to 38778.167 
For me, the best answer I can give is, 'we don't want them.'

It's not so much a matter of hard ideology as of considered moral preference. We prefer to live in a society where the overwhelming majority of people choose not to own a tool made for killing other people, because life feels better like that. A chacun son goût, as they say.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951

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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)  
 To:  Manthorp     
38778.170 In reply to 38778.169 

You only don't want them because you weren't raised with them.

 

You don't want a tool for killing, but sales of baseball bats on Amazon are up over 4000%. It doesn't take a gun to kill or hurt someone. It only takes the intention to do that.

 

And I don't know about you, but I can guess what the buyers of those bats were going to do.

 

Guns serve another purpose other than killing as well. They serve as a deterrent.

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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.171 In reply to 38778.170 
quote:
You only don't want them because you weren't raised with them.


You only want them because you were. That's why I distinguished between ideology and morally informed choice. I have no right or desire to tell you that America should disarm. But neither do I think that you or anybody else has a right to tell me that the British ought to own guns.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951

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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  Manthorp     
38778.172 In reply to 38778.169 
That sums it up well. We just don't want them. We fell safer and better without. Whether we actually are who knows, but what we feel counts a lot.
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 From:  JonCooper  
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)     
38778.173 In reply to 38778.170 
You only don't want them because you weren't raised with them.


but we were, well anyone of mine or manny's age ~ the major parts of laws banning handgun ownership etc were made up in/after 1987

Jon
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