Teh Mine - Teh Forum

From:	Matt	27 Jul 2011 11:58
To:	ANT_THOMAS	2472 of 3934

38140.2472 In reply to 38140.2470
It's relatively close though, that was kinda my point. You're asking people who haven't yet made a stake on any land or built anything (i.e. me) to basically bugger off somewhere miles away in case they build somewhere someone else had earmarked (and possibly not told anyone else about) and then if I do find a suitable spot, I or someone else has to spend time connecting it up. That's all very well, but it's a huge sap to motivation to have to wander off for 10~20 minutes to make sure you don't cause conflict with someone else, and like I said it comes across very elitist. It's kinda like you can't build here because I said so, so there! I agree that as a new builder I should be considerate of other people's future plans, but that's not easy when you don't know what their plans might include or how far out they might build. So with that in mind, those who have claimed land for future development should be considerate of my intention to build and mark out their land telling me not to use it. That is all.

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 11:58
To:	Matt	2473 of 3934

38140.2473 In reply to 38140.2469
Firstly, what Ant said - that was wilderness when I built there and it was (I think) the furthest building away from Spawn at the time. It's not remotely close to spawn, actually. Of course as people join the server they have to venture further away from spawn to find 'clear' land to build in, that is inevitable and no real inconvenience as there's no reason to go back to spawn and because there is an extensive travel network (which now uses the nether so it's very fast to get to seemingly remote places). There's no hardship at all in building further out beyond the initial trek out there which is... well, part of the game. And fun. And, bemusingly, Mikee did exactly that when he joined - he made a railway line to somewhere far to the north and I assumed he was going to build his stuff there. Which would've made sense (although I'd argue it'd make more sense to build your stuff and then connect it up by rail) but he ... just left it and started building stuff next to mine instead. If the terrain were limited or empty space was hard to find or if there was any hardship in being further out or it was difficult to travel long distances then you'd have a point, but none of those things is true. We shouldn't have to fence of land. No one owns the land - anyone can, of course, build anywhere. But it's pretty obvious looking at the map which areas are occupied and which are not and, as I've said, I just see it as a matter of courtesy to not encroach on someone else's creation without at least asking if they mind first. It's not about ownership and staking a claim and shit like that, it's just about manners. Of course if space was limited then it'd be different. What gets me is that there's plenty of open space - the vast majority of the yet-discovered terrain is completely empty. I've asked Mikee (nicely) several times, in several different ways, to find somewhere empty to build into. And every time he moves a few metres away (literally) and continues building. I don't know whether I'm being unwittingly obscure or whether he disagrees and is trying to tell me that without just using words or is just doing it to piss me off. Which is why I've posted here. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:02
To:	Peter (BOUGHTONP)	2474 of 3934

38140.2474 In reply to 38140.2471
We shouldn't have to use fences. It doesn't take a genius to use the map and work out in which areas you are going to be treading on someone's toes. It's not about saying "I own this land, fuck off". It's about "there's something already here - you might want to at least ask before building something within sight of it when there's plenty of fucking empty space to build in". I don't want to discourage people from co-operation, that's what the game's about. If someone wants to help me build my thing, I welcome that. If someone has an idea for something that might look cool near/next to/inside my thing then I welcome that too. Building something which clashes with the tone of the current stuff when there's plenty of open space to build in, without asking, is not co-operation, it's quite the opposite. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Matt	27 Jul 2011 12:10
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2475 of 3934

38140.2475 In reply to 38140.2473

It's not remotely close, but now that there are lots of other constructions in that area (edit: between your place and the spawn I mean), it's much more relatively closer compared to where I might have to go to start building.

As for the map making things obvious. It might be obvious to you, but I have no idea what your future intentions are for the land you've already built on. And the terrain might be unlimited, but when you have empty pockets and no way to quick travel somewhere, it suddenly becomes much more of an issue. Once you're well established and have resources pouring out everywhere it's a little bit different.

Maybe the spawn should be moved and a DMZ (non-build) area put around it. The only thing that can be built there is a mine cart line that connects to the network?

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From:	ANT_THOMAS	27 Jul 2011 12:12
To:	Matt	2476 of 3934

38140.2476 In reply to 38140.2472
It's not really 10-20 minutes of walking, it's more like 5 to get away from things. I haven't checked but if you walked for 20 minutes flat you'd be very far away. Actually, it's my dinner hour (like that matters :$ ) and I'll go to spawn and walk for about 15 mins and see where I end up.

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From:	Peter (BOUGHTONP)	27 Jul 2011 12:12
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2477 of 3934

38140.2477 In reply to 38140.2474
Doesn't need to be fences - a sign or two at the boundary saying "this is my garden" would be enough. I otherwise agree with everything there, but it seems new people are worried about being seen/included and don't realise distance isn't significant to that. (Nor a factor in travelling.) `3.1415P265E589T932E846R64338`

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:14
To:	Matt	2478 of 3934

38140.2478 In reply to 38140.2472
It's not relatively close at all. It's about as far as you can get within the current area of built-up stuff from spawn. The whole area to the north and east of spawn - right next to spawn, going in that direction, is completely empty. And being close to spawn brings no benefit anyway, so is beside the point. quote: but it's a huge sap to motivation to have to wander off for 10~20 minutes to make sure you don't cause conflict with someone else Seriously? Why? quote: and like I said it comes across very elitist. It's kinda like you can't build here because I said so, so there! How is it by any stretch of the imagination elitist? Seriously - I'm actually asking. It's not about 'you can't build here because I said so', it's about 'oh there's something already here, so rather than build next to someone else in the 5% of occupied land yet discovered, how about I either ask if they mind or build in the 95% of empty fucking land'. quote: I agree that as a new builder I should be considerate of other people's future plans, but that's not easy It's pretty fucking easy really. I'll do a helpful and beautiful diagram. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:15
To:	Matt	2479 of 3934

38140.2479 In reply to 38140.2475
I'd like you to note from my beautiful diagram that no one else at all seemed to have a problem with this concept. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:18
To:	Matt	2480 of 3934

38140.2480 In reply to 38140.2475
quote: no way to quick travel somewhere We have a quick travel network, thanks to Kev. Sure, you don't know that the second you join but that's why you ask rather than presuming. As I said, no one else struggled with any of this. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Mikee	27 Jul 2011 12:18
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2481 of 3934

38140.2481 In reply to 38140.2473

Like I've said...

I made my first redstone creation near where I was told was the place people use to test redstone stuff. You knocked it down, I wasn't that bothered. Didn't realise you wanted that space clear. It was only an experiment anyway.

I built a tree near-ish your church. Didn't think it'd matter because it was quite a subtle thing. You said you might need that land, I said it was fine, just knock it down.

So I moved out to a place where I knew was far away enough for nobody to need that land and built my thing there.

I built at the edge of what I considered to be the hub of activity. That's how the game is played on all other private servers I've been on.

Either way, I've taken it down and now that I know you have laid claim to this area, I'll make sure it's far away.

Attachments:

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:23
To:	Mikee	2482 of 3934

38140.2482 In reply to 38140.2481
Excellent, thanks. I'm glad it only took me asking politely 10 times and an argument on the forum to get you to see what everyone else seemed to take for granted. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Mikee	27 Jul 2011 12:30
To:	ALL	2483 of 3934

38140.2483
quote: Excellent, thanks. I'm glad it only took me asking politely 10 times and an argument on the forum to get you to see what everyone else seemed to take for granted. ..... at what point did you become such a dick? quote: It's pretty fucking easy really. I'll do a helpful and beautiful diagram. And that's really easy to see for a new person coming onto the server, isn't it? No, it's really not. I see lots of buildings in random places and have no idea who built them and what plans they have for the future. But thanks for the diagram.

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:34
To:	Mikee	2484 of 3934

38140.2484 In reply to 38140.2483
quote: ..... at what point did you become such a dick? I think I've pretty much always been a dick. quote: And that's really easy to see for a new person coming onto the server, isn't it? As I say, no one else seemed to struggle. And I did tell you several times. quote: But thanks for the diagram. My pleasure :D (hug) , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	patch	27 Jul 2011 12:42
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2485 of 3934

38140.2485 In reply to 38140.2478
You left Oscar off that diagram, you elitist /bastard/.

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 12:46
To:	patch	2486 of 3934

38140.2486 In reply to 38140.2485
OSCAR I AM SORRY! :'S , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Matt	27 Jul 2011 12:52
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2487 of 3934

38140.2487 In reply to 38140.2478
Maybe elitist is the wrong word. But what you've said is exactly what it feels like. What I mean is, if I'm new and I start building and you ask politely that I move (ask, not tell), it can still come across as being told to by someone who was here before me and thus comes across as being more important. That doesn't of course mean they are of course, just that's the way it comes across. And because there isn't an immediately obvious reason why I'm being "told" to move, just that you might build there, it's makes it confusing. Maybe being made to feel excluded is a better choice of words. And I didn't just say it's not easy, I gave a specific example as to why it appears to not be easy.

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From:	Serg (NUKKLEAR)	27 Jul 2011 12:54
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2488 of 3934

38140.2488 In reply to 38140.2478

And me too, with my tiny entrance to f'loads of caves (and lava :C ) and a pointless stairway to the skies, just to the lower left of Lindy :'(

(I AM KIDDING. I don't actually give a sh*t)

[...Insert Brain Here...]

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 13:08
To:	Matt	2489 of 3934

38140.2489 In reply to 38140.2487
I don't know what you're basing this on but none of that is really what happened. I say again: No one else had a problem with this. Everyone had the decency/social intelligence to either find an empty spot or say "hey, mind if I build x over here?". That's co-operation, and there's nothing remotely elitist about it. It is, quite simply, courtesy. It's not hard. I didn't just ask Mikee to move without explanation - that's not what happened. I said something very much like: "That's really close to my stuff - why not find an ampty area to build in like everyone else has? There's plenty of empty space out there". He's also not exactly all that new - he knows us all and he build a pretty lengthy railway out into empty space before he started what he's doing now. There's no rules to this, it's pretty organic and social and co-operative. If you want to know something, you ask and you err on the side of caution where other peoples' stuff is concerned. I wouldn't go and build the Eiffel Tower next to Ken's Space Needle or go and enclose Jon's maze-map in soil or whatever despite there being no rules against doing so. It just takes a bit of common sense, a bit of courtesy and ... listening when someone tells you something. , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	27 Jul 2011 13:09
To:	Serg (NUKKLEAR)	2490 of 3934

38140.2490 In reply to 38140.2488
But you're a gypsy, constantly on the move. The whole map is your home, Serg (hug) , , , , , , , , , , `' (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) (o,o) \ \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) \|)__) ''`>-,--”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---”-”---- ,'.*''`

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From:	Ken (SHIELDSIT)	27 Jul 2011 13:10
To:	Drew (X3N0PH0N)	2491 of 3934

38140.2491 In reply to 38140.2484

You forgot to cram someone in between my old build and you. Hence the new me.

Edit: You can actually mark my old place Tanner's.

A Blog

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