"a simple agreement that I am correct will do"

You stole that from May!

I’m just not sure what choice there has been other than watching them fuck it up. It’s only today that May has even offered any cross party talks on it, and you just know they’ll not be in any way productive. If she folds on the red lines then half her own party rebels. Then again, she’s got until December to worry about that now so perhaps there’s a chance!

I think labour and Corbyn have been pretty clear about what they want really; guaranteed rights for EU citizens, close ties, seeking an election most of all but other options to follow now including maybe this fabled second referendum. The right and centre press has reported this terribly and lied throughout, and there seems no way to change that no matter what they do. Even bland old Ed Miliband copped the same kind of shit. So, hope to get in and Levenson 2 those fuckers I suppose, along with the rest of it. Ugh, our own Rendle tweeted a few minutes ago saying any other opposition leader would’ve won the confidence vote today. What, persuaded Tories to vote themselves out of a job and got the DU fucking P onside somehow? I’m almost interested enough to actually ask him how. Reality distortion fields seem powerful these days.

Anyway yeah I’m pretty depressed by it all when I fail in the project of not thinking about it.

I'm simply presenting a strong and stable argument that is in the interests of this thread.

There was no chance they'd lose the no confidence vote. Definitely ridiculous to think otherwise. No matter how many Tory MPs voted against the deal, every single one of them wants to be in the party of government.

I'd also like a Corbyn government, or at least did before he effectively became pro-Brexit. Though I do realise he is somewhat sitting on the fence deliberately as a reasonable number of Labour voters and traditionally Labour areas support leaving.

The anti-semitism stuff stinks too.

Supposedly he's always been anti-EU which, seeings what they did to Greece...

the anti-semitism stuff seems almost entirely bullshit though. 

and I don't agree he's become pro-Brexit, I think that's just more crappy reporting. He's honest and nuanced about it however!

nah, he's been absolutely clear (and then terribly reported) about this: he's about 7/10 in favour of the EU, saying that it has some serious problems (it does) that are better resolved from within and the downsides of leaving are worse than remaining and trying to improve it.

Obviously 99.9% of the press then report this as TRAITOR CORBS HATES YOU AND THE EU but there we are.

Today the PM won't move on the red lines and Corbyn wants her to remove the no-deal possibility as a condition of talks moving forward. So she says no. Watch in a few days where, by her own clever thinking and decision making entirely!, she says no deal won't work and we should avoid it at all costs. 

Problem is all MPs who voted to activate Article 50 knew by definition that if they don't agree to a transition deal that automatically results in a no deal Brexit. No deal Brexit would be catastrophic, but they knowingly voted for that.

I agree the anti-semitism has been amplified somewhat, but it's still there on the (far) left.

If he's not pro-Brexit is he then pro implementing the referendum result?
Slightly different with it being a "will of the people" argument.

He's said he would renegotiate a different deal with the EU, single market etc, so that says he'd go ahead with Brexit if in power. Jobs first Brexit and all that, which makes him sound very stupid, because Brexit is pretty much guaranteed to cause job losses in all versions of it. If he would actually do that obviously remains to be seen.

All parliament have to be pro-democracy so none of them are going to say they'll reverse it immediately against 'the will of the fucking twats'. What's done is done until such time as they can persuade the masses that it's a bad idea to leave because of the downsides. Hopefully that renegotiation would get us there but given there's has been almost zero minds changed by the clusterfuck so far, I don't have much hope. ugh.

Regarding the far left, that's not really for Corbyn to personally do a lot about. The Party machinery has to do it, which is one of the things that make Labour good since its in the controls of the membership. The standards being asked are ludicrous compared to what many of the critics (EG press, tories) maintain themselves which is well below what Labour have ended up with now.

There's an easy conflation for the mouth-foaming zionists, and Christian fundamentalists hankering for Armageddon to make, and some politically ambitious folks pander to, that all criticism of Israel and Zionism, and all support for Palestinians are ipso-facto anti-Semitic.

I think Corbyn's been consistently pretty careful to draw that line, while some acolytes and associates have not.

The unpleasant fact is that some Israeli Jews, including politicians in government, have declared open hatred of Arabs, and some Palestinians in the occupied territories, and the diaspora, have expressed hatred of Jews, so that kind of makes both those people literal anti-Semites, if you accept that both Arabs and Jews are Semitic (YMMV). It is what it is, and denying it sure AF don't help the situation

He's playing an interesting and rather dangerous game of liars' poker with May, and at this point I wouldn't bet on either coming out a winner, but the odds are good the UK will come out a loser if 1. May doesn't accept a Norway-ish custom union (assuming that is even possible, some say it isn't) or 2. Corbyn doesn't back a 2nd referendum RSN.

my current feeling is that a second referendum will also mean UK coming out a loser, but who knows!

Current polling appears to show the stay side would have it, but who knows what crazy lies would be spun by Putin et al to proceed with the trainwreck.

> I agree the anti-semitism has been amplified somewhat, but it's still there on the (far) left.

What exactly is still where?

Can you reference any academic studies that show a statistically significant increase in Jew hatred?

Or, like, just... any vaguely competentish attempt at proving it's more than just lies, misinformation, and FUD.

Just have a browse on twitter of what Rachel Riley (of Countdown fame) has been enduring of late and has been highlighting. It exists, it's there, it's not made up and it's not just a few isolated incidents.

https://www.google.com/search?q=anti+semitism+reports+increasing

Yes it exists on both (far) sides and the left have had much more media focus (unfairly in comparison), but that doesn't make it correct.

If it hasn't started yet, read the last message again.

> It exists, it's there, it's not made up and it's not just a few isolated incidents.

That is not what I'm saying.

Let me put it another way: fill in the gaps...

Show a greater proportion of anti-Semitic feelings for any of those categories and you'll have changed my position. (Existing percentages derived from the not-particularly-reputable YouGov.)

Not Corbyn's fault though, is it?

Directly no, but it's his group of followers and it somewhat taints his reputation unfortunately.

You just said it was lies. But you seem to (I think) agree it exists.