It is kinda amazing. Every time I play I come up with new ideas as to how I want to play it next (like my current one is playing as a Chinese faction and seeing if it's possibly to colonise America via the Pacific before the Europeans get there. Also I want to have a successful game as a Native American tribe, which is hard). I've got a huge backlog of ideas for games I want to do.

It has a bit of a learning curve but I've talked friends through the UI and they're up and running in 5-10 minutes, it's really about learning which buttons do what, there's little to no real micromanagement despite the complexity of the simulation.

It's a hell of a timesink though.

I'd avoid setting up a colony in Panama.

Also: shut up shut up shut up shut up.

But 'no' is negative! LOLZ

BUY IT BENJI THE YES CAMPAIGN DEPENDS ON IT!

(I assume you're a 'Yes'. Though obviously there's a valid, anti-nationalist lefty reason for supporting 'No').

The way the Tories are stacking the system in favour of big business there's really no valid lefty reason to vote No.

Unfortunately I'm about to out my flat on the market and I need a tory economy to get the best price. So a quandary. Where ever did I leave my morales and convictions?

In the poll or the referendum?

I saw some "Vote No for social justice" campaigners on Sauchiehall street the other day. Turned out they were the communist party or something similar. I felt bad, because pretty much everyone up here who is voting for social justice, rather than voting out of fear, is voting Yes.

Meh - property prices in Edinburgh will always do OK. Bear in mind that if the economy crashes, it'll suddenly become cheaper to do all the stuff which got outsourced to India, and you could find yourself back out at the Gyle, clearing laundered money for Mexican cartels or whatever it is that the banks do these days. Also - vote Yes so that you can look your son in the eye and tell him that you didn't succumb to Project Fear.

Aye, I think if your goal is to do the most potential good for the most people 'Yes' makes far more sense. Though I do appreciate the ideological point of the hard left.

I think it's indicative of a certain kind of hard-left thinking that they haven't actually considered that they are in a position where they have the possibility that their actions could really make a change.

I started off as a No-leaning "don't know" - I have an English girlfriend who works a lot in Scotland, and my work means I spend large chunks of time in the offices of financial institutions in England. Chances are that that will all change in the event of independence. In theory, it should be in my best interests to vote No, but the more I see and hear, the more I realise that I am a Yes voter.

Also, Chuck D says Yes.

Haha. I'm sure that's part of it. I do sympathise though, I don't like the idea of further dividing us up, creating more borders and artificial distinctions between the people over here and the people over there. The more we think of ourselves as similar and as belonging to the same community the better, I think.

But yeah, the border already exists, independence just recognises that, it doesn't create extra division it just recognises that one exists and tries to handle it better. The best rational Yes argument is that Scotland votes differently to England and independence would give you the government you want (and one which would actually put your interests and requirements first).

(Personally I'm more swayed by the emotional stuff. It's about the dignity and self-respect that comes with self-determination).

edit: Oh and the Chuck D thing is great, will be sharing that.

Which led me to this!

I'm really hoping Scotland votes Yes and does a really good job of running a more just society and fair government. Then more people in England see that and think "I want our government to be that good" and we actually do something about it and vote a good government in. Or at least force better policies.

Amen brother.

I've lived most of my life under a government I've either not voted for myself or that my family hasn't voted for. Scotland buggering off to be independent makes that more likely to happen. So that, for me, is a crap argument to use in favour of independence. It would be interesting to see how many Scottish yes voters were in favour of changing the voting system in the uk.

It's a good argument *for Scotland*. We don't get a vote, like.

It's not just about Scotland though is it. This decision will affect the rest of us too. And while the no campaign has been fucktardidly negative, the yes campaign has reeked of "we don't vote for the Tories, we're going to fuck off and take what we want from the rest of you and to hell with it all because we don't like it. And if you don't give us what we want, well fuck you all in the ear". The whole process has been as far from edifying and positive as anything I can think of in recently. At least when devolution was discussed and voted in the positives were argued for effectively. This just stinks.

Post #6

Not that devolution. The 1998 debate. That was good. This is all shit.

I've always been happy to describe myself as British but the whole Englishness thing has got out of hand. Might have to be welsh from now on.