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This is BS

From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 17:51
To: ALL1 of 65
38437.1
BS mean Bullshit!
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From: JonCooper 3 May 2011 18:40
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 2 of 65
38437.2 In reply to 38437.1
looks cheap to me - we pay over twice that
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 18:41
To: JonCooper 3 of 65
38437.3 In reply to 38437.2
It was in the mid $2 range about a month ago. Pisses me right off!
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From: JonCooper 3 May 2011 18:52
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 4 of 65
38437.4 In reply to 38437.3
move to UK - I paid £1.44 a liter for diesel this morning
that translates to $9.05 per US gal
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 18:54
To: JonCooper 5 of 65
38437.5 In reply to 38437.4
You're pound is worth $9? Man you should move here!
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From: JonCooper 3 May 2011 19:00
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 6 of 65
38437.6 In reply to 38437.5
nope, our 'gas' is sold by the liter, I did the conversion to US gals for you

£5.50 is about $9
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 19:02
To: JonCooper 7 of 65
38437.7 In reply to 38437.6
Ah, that's better. I was about to invite you over for a party!
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From: koswix 3 May 2011 19:18
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 8 of 65
38437.8 In reply to 38437.5

Liters and gallons, oh colonial one.

 

And stop moaning, if your entire country hadn't been using oil like it was going out of fasion for the past 50 years there might be enough left to keep the prices down :|

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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 19:54
To: koswix 9 of 65
38437.9 In reply to 38437.8

Kos man I love ya but it's not like everyone here just woke up one day and decided we were going to guzzle every bit of oil we could. We (or my family) personally conserve where we can, because it's getting to expensive.

 

Our gas usage is about 90% used to travel to and from work or shopping for groceries.

 

I think travel in this country is very different than over there. In the rural areas we have no mass transit and if you don't have a car you would be screwed.

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From: Matt 3 May 2011 20:11
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 10 of 65
38437.10 In reply to 38437.9
quote:
In the rural areas we have no mass transit and if you don't have a car you would be screwed.


That's quite often how it is here as well, actually probably eerily similar.

If you live out in the sticks, you might get lucky and have a local non-national bus company that runs services to the nearest larger town, but the national companies tend to favour connecting larger towns and cities only and it's just coincidental that they travel through villages on their routes.

Also trains, again really only connect larger towns and cities too.

Many villages here in the UK no longer have any services like schools, shops, banks or post offices and without transport links we too are often forced to use cars to ferry ourselves to and from places.
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 20:12
To: Matt 11 of 65
38437.11 In reply to 38437.10
Then how are we the only ones using all the oil?
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From: JonCooper 3 May 2011 20:31
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 12 of 65
38437.12 In reply to 38437.11
cos it's so cheap there? we can't afford the stuff!
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From: Matt 3 May 2011 20:32
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 13 of 65
38437.13 In reply to 38437.11
As a nation the US is by far the largest consumer of oil. According to your own EIA (Energy Information Administration), the United States consumed 19.50 million barrels of oil per day in 2008. That's more than twice any other country in the world.

Second place was China with 7.85 million barrels per day. The UK ranks 14th with 1.71 million barrels per day.

That's some scary shit.
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 20:35
To: Matt 14 of 65
38437.14 In reply to 38437.13
I would like to see that compared to population and square miles. There has to be a reason for that. It's not like we are just letting our cars run day and night because it's fun!
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From: koswix 3 May 2011 20:35
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 15 of 65
38437.15 In reply to 38437.9

It's OK Shieldywieldy, it's not your fault (it is, though). It's a cultural thing and it's beeing going on at least since the 50s.

 

Look at the diference in the top selling cars in the US vs UK for instance.

 

Top two in the US

 

1. Ford F-150, 23 mpg
2. Chevy Silverado, 20 mpg

 


Top two in the UK

 

1. Ford Fiesta, 51 mpg
2. Vauxhall Astra, 47 mpg

 

I've made all mpg figures in US Gallons, and the figures are for Highway Miles for the US cars and Extra Urban for UK (think they're basically the same thing?)

 


All four cars are made by American companies, so it's not like you don't have access to some crazy fuel efficiency tech that the rest of the world has.

 


And to be honest, the fact that you think it's BS that a finite resource has a relatively high price in the first place is symptomatic of a culture that is entirely geared towards consumption (not just of oil, but everything else that is and can be consumed by a country is underpinned by oil) - every aspect of US media, culture and politics seems to have that one goal (to an outsider at least).

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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 20:40
To: koswix 16 of 65
38437.16 In reply to 38437.15

Very good points. I think some of it is psychological. We want big ass cars and trucks. I remember a few years ago everyone wanted a Hummer. I think and wish they would enforce a minimum mpg of at lest 35.

 

I used to hear rumors of people inventing cars that would get over 100 mpg and the oil companies buying the ideas/patents just so they wouldn't get used.

 

But you're right, just about every bit of packaging contains some type of petroleum product. So it's not just at the pump it's everywhere!

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From: koswix 3 May 2011 20:47
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 17 of 65
38437.17 In reply to 38437.16

It's not just packaging, it's /everything/. Like actually /everything/.

 

I still beleive that the real cause of the recession is/was oil prices, and as the world/west recovers and the demand goes back up the price rises again, and it'll come back and bight us in the ass again and again.

 

It's not to do with oil running out per se, but to do with the maximum rate at which we can get it out of the ground. There is very little spare capacity in the system (most of the OPEC capacity is unverified and probably made up, as member quotas are based on how much oil they /say/ they have in the ground)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory

 


And peope here still want big cars and to consume non stop, it's just that on a widescale cultural level it hasn't reached the same level of engrained 'entitlement' to consume that seems to exist in the US (I say this entirely based on chatting to people online and your countries media output - I've never been to the US, closest I've been is Canada which seems quite similar in a lot of ways :$).

 

That is changing here though, each new generation seems to think it's entitled to more and more. I think I'm getting old :(

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From: koswix 3 May 2011 20:51
To: koswix 18 of 65
38437.18 In reply to 38437.17
This is a message I sent to Xen in November 2008. Still freaks me out how acurate this guy's book is about stuff :|


quote:
I've been banging on about this book for what seems like ages now, but I've been re-reading some parts of it today and came across this passage. Book was written 2 years ago roughly, and this reads more like a history of the last 18 months rather than conjecture on what could happen if oil production peaks.

Do you know much/read much about 'peak oil'? It's a pretty interesting topic, but it's hard to know what to take seriously in all the poo that's out there.
quote: The Last Oil Shock
[talking about realisation in the markets that oil only needs to peak, not run out, to cause chaos]
But the moment the money men get it, the price of oil and other energy assets will soar, and almost everything else will go into meltdown.

A major spike in oil price is recessionary not only because of its direct effects on the global economy, but also because it is likely to cause stock markets around the world to crash, further reinforcing the recessionary pressures. This in turn will lead to second order effects, such as the deepening insolvency of many pension funds, which hold the bulk of their investments in stocks and shares. This fallout is likely to be particularly bloody in Britain, where the Pensions Regulator is monitoring 300 major occupational schemes that are already in danger of going bust.
...
The value of endowment policies will collapse too, with devastating effect on the borrowers who were counting on them to repay their mortgage, and the housing market as a whole. The banking sector will act as a multiplier: since so much lending is ‘secured’ against future economic growth, as the outlook worsens lending will fall, leading to further contraction. [my emphasisisisis]
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From: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 3 May 2011 20:53
To: koswix 19 of 65
38437.19 In reply to 38437.17

True dat homie.

 

I used to feel entitled and then I too got old. It's funny how time does that to you.

 

Something certainly has to change, and I sure wish I had the answer to how we are going to get our dependence on oil reduced but I don't.

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From: Matt 3 May 2011 20:58
To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) 20 of 65
38437.20 In reply to 38437.19
We should all get Mr Fusions installed on our cars. We should all own and drive DeLoreans, too.

Or maybe not.
EDITED: 3 May 2011 20:58 by MATT
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