It's playing at a more visceral level than that, I think.  

The UK Independence Party (UKIP) is a far-right, somewhat libertarian party that commands a good deal of media time but polls lower than its votes, because of the perversity of the UK's first-past-the-post voting system (I have no time for UKIP, but I have no time for FPTP either).

UKIP is strongly pro-Brexit, for largely jingoistic reasons, as is a smattering of the right-wing rump of the Conservatives (the most significant of whom is Boris Johnson, Mayor of London and a potential successor to David Cameron as leader of the Conservatives).  The Conservative Brexiters tend towards a free market argument.  This is not to say that there aren't left-wing Brexiters - there are - and Jeremy Corbyn, the very left-wing leader of the Labour party, is highly skeptical of the EU, whilst ultimately falling on the 'remain' side of the fence.

It's all pretty academic: for all the endless acres of press and media coverage, the result is a foregone conclusion: a comfortable win for the Remain vote.  British voters are generally conservative (with a small 'c') and little coherent argument has been made for the Brexit side. Both sides are playing the fear card, and it's a hell of a lot easier to make a coherent scare story out of change than it is to make it out of the continuation of the status quo.

Fear of immigration seems to be a driving force.

Why would anyone care what obama says? All he is doing as far as that goes, is trying to get a photo op over there. Yes, there is no way the U.S. will trade isolate the U.K., especially considering the outreach to Cuba - not that the embargo made any sense in the first place; it is one area where I actually agree with the jug-eared blighter (if it was even his idea in the first place).

It is a very divisive issue, with (broadly) the left calling for greater immigration of refugees (well, just any would be an improvement!); and (broadly) the right using it to stoke fear. There's a high degree of correlation between the hard right and the Brexit lobby.

To go for your question specifically, I doubt it matters much. Whatever's going to happen to the world in the next few decades will not be affected much by the UK being in or out of the EU. 

I think the decision is so complicated it's basically impossible for most people to have any kind of real understanding of the pros and cons, so we - as ever in politics these days - will decide through soundbites, oversimplifications and complete bullshit. Just for a change.

My personal take right now:

> I don't trust our national government, banks and so on to be 'better' for society without the EU's rules and regulations. Just the opposite if anything.
> The prominent spokespeople for the Exit campaigns are almost entirely repellent pond scum about anything else they hold an opinion on, so I'm not inclined to expect them to be any different this time.
> Therefore, remain.

There's part of me that would be interested in working it all out properly and rationally, but it's a waste of time to attempt it.

edit - I also just realised I should add a point that by no means do I like all the prominent Remain spokespeople. David fucking Cameron for a start. But still, it's not quite such an exclusively cunty club.
 

Pretty much what Milko said to be honest.

I want to be part of the EU. From a business point of view the current uncertainty is absolutely shit. Working in an industry that relies on a strong pound for lower cost imports means costs are currently increasing because of the exchange rates at the moment.

If we leave it could probably, for a short time, make travelling a bit more difficult for UK nationals. I would assume that most EU countries would just allow continued access, but they don't need to and some might not. Imagine applying for a Visa to travel to France when there's a tunnel already.

The real question, that no one is prepared to offer an answer to, is this:

If we leave the EU will we get duty-free shopping back on shorthaul flights?

Asking for a friend.

Two words:

home

still

Are you? Well get to work already!

My brudder-in-law made one of these (albeit a bit cruder than this fine example) and has been making corn likker/white lightning. He even keeps it in mason jars! Not really aged so a tad harsh IMO. My cousin from Glenrothes who worked in a scottish distillery told me scotch cost ~25p a gallon to make (this would have been ~30-years ago). SO FUCK DUTY FREE!!! (fergie)

>>My cousin from Glenrothes who worked in a scottish distillery told me scotch cost ~25p a gallon to make (this would have been ~30-years ago)

Never trust folk from Glenrothes. 

This was New Glenrothes or New Town or some such in Fife. He got relocated there from a farm in the highlands somewhere.

You mean, "a friend".

Is he waiting on the transport then? We'll try to hurry things...

You didn't ask, but it is possible to substantially improve the quality of what comes out, as well as reduce energy use using slightly more advanced setups.  These are well documented and widely used industrially, but especially common in oil refining.

Basically:
- Instead of heating it as a batch, feed the raw liquid in as the coolant and bring it in slowly.  See that 45 degree sloped line with the water cooling setup?  Just feed in the raw liquid into that instead to capture the condensation heat, and then drip it down into the large tank at the bottom.  This thermal recycling can cut the required heat easily by 50% and increases output for the same size still.

- Let the vapors rise inside of a "packed column" instead of just an empty copper tube. (see that vertical section above the tank  - it is going to waste the way it is designed.)  A common example is to fill a tube with glass or metallic spheres or rings (basically just adding in more surface area and stacked vertically).   Each time the vapor condenses and re - vaporizes on these surfaces, is nearly equivalent to another distillation.

- Consider to take the vapor off of the column about 1/2 way up instead of completely off the top.  The vapor at the top of the column tends to be slightly enriched in methanol, which gives the majority of the hang over effect. (in quantity, it is toxic).

You spelled "vapour" wrong.  :-B

LOL - that is funny fixrman.  I am not sure why I missed your post on this earlier.

Well, the voting is getting close now, so it is certainly interesting to watch elections in other countries.

I am a strong believer that people from one country should not try to influence the elections in another, so I will try to carefully refrain from that area.

I have no idea how it is presented in the UK, but perhaps you might be curious how it is being presented over here?

More or less:

Vote to Stay side
- The normal "the sky will fall down" fear mongering
- The economy will fail
- Real estate values will fall, especially in London, because foreign buyers will not need to be in London anymore
- Wealthy bankers / real estate owners seem to be the most concerned due to (?) and some tax code aspects
- The hedge fund guys are not worried, possibly because they know how the game is rigged?


Vote to leave
- Tired of being pushed around by EU
- UK knows how to make lots of laws all by itself without another layer of unelected government
- Tired of paying taxes to EU for no particular reason

I am not sure exactly how the Euro plays with it all now that the UK has joined into the Chinese money exchange system, but it does seem to be pretty complicated from here.

I am not sure what is true or not, but from here it appears that the wealthier you are, the better off you are staying within the EU, while the poorer you are, the better off you are to leave.  No idea if that is true or not.

There are some expectations that people will be making rapid trades on the exchanges on Wednesday and Thursday trying to make money on the fear / panic / vote status of the moment.

Good luck with your election.

Harry


 

"another layer of unelected government"

Actually, members of the EU Parliament are elected. Scary eh?

I'm for remaining (and I might be wrong, but I think the majority on here are too. That's probably no surprise).

I've tried my best not to discuss the referendum much, I really can't be bothered getting into any political arguments at the moment.

From what I've seen there's 3 main points that are pushing the agenda.

Immigration
Sovereignty
EU fees

In terms of the campaigning, it's just totally negative on both sides.

The remain side have done an incredibly poor job of promoting the positives of being in the EU, instead they're trading on fear and the negative consequences of leaving. A valid tactic, but not so good when you're trying to convince people who have an inherent hatred of the EU.

The leave side are using negatives along with lies to try and win the argument. One of the figureheads of the campaign has decided that he's fed up of experts giving their expert views on the topics they're experts in, because who needs to listen to the people who are educated and experienced in the areas that will be affected?! Not him apparently.

I personally fear that we will vote to leave tomorrow. Demographics, polls and voter turn out look to possibly sway towards a leave result. The younger generation tend to poll as wanting to remain, but the younger generation tend not to vote. Whenever the referendum has been discussed whilst I've been visiting customers, more have been for leaving than remaining. I'm genuinely worried.

One other major problem is that if leave win we will end up with the people heading up the leave campaign in power. I can't stand the current lot, but the leave group of people are just total shits.

The people seem to think we can shut the borders if we leave, that won't happen if we want a free trade agreement.

The people seem to think we won't have to listen to EU rules and regulations if we leave, that won't happen if we want to sell into the EU, we'll have to adhere to all of the regulations to trade with them, we just won't have the power to influence them anymore.

The people seem to think we will save a load of money if we leave. We might save a bit, but we'll still have to pay a fee to be part of a free trade agreement, but then have no legal influence over policies.

I'm hoping a lot of people have kept quiet and go for the more cautious option of remaining.

The odds across the bookmakers are favouring remain.

I'd personally have us join the Schengen Area if I had my way, but, admittedly that's a bit of an extreme view.

Well said.
  ^This.

The televised debate last night was more bickering, mudslinging and oneupmanship from all sides. However, the MSP Conservative lady (can't remember her name) was the most coherent speaker and I think won the debate on the night.

The leave campaigners were espousing their cause in a way that irritated the fuck out of me. Putting over a weak argument and then culminating their speech with their slogan more often than not just grated. A few of them also leaned on the old chestnut of 'speaking as a parent/grandparent'. I already assumed they have family, fortifying a statement with that prefix means nothing and is an attempt to either sympathise with the voters, or get the voters to sympathise with them. If the argument is hollow and unsubstantiated or even if it isn't, referring back to your family to make it seem that you're one of us doesn't wash.

Some people I know seem to think that leaving will allow us to literally shut our borders to immigrants, and somehow that's a panacea to sorting out the housing shortage, low wages and lack of school places.

I hope we stay in and the wife hopes we do too. But that's mainly because she's a teacher, who was detrimentally affected by Gove's policies as education secretary, really doesn't like him and will shift heaven and earth to be on the opposite of whatever side he's on.