Yes, I am well aware of the impact, its just that exactly who is President will not change it all that much.

As a practical matter, the UK bank system has more influence on the world than who is the US President.

If it were me, I would be more concerned with who is PM of Isreal, as they are the tail wagging the dog.

Just to be clear, the US is fundamentally capable of operating in near isolation.  While it is not operated this way, it is feasible.  There are two approaches that could be taken, and it is a point of internal discussions all of the time:
- Stop importing goods and let the rest of the world just have fun on their own - yes this is a real concept in the US
- Try to help out counties that have less opportunity, by purchasing goods from them, even to our own detriment.  This is what we are doing today.

I realize that very wealthy and powerful people push their ideas out to the world and really force some things on others, and Americans have really mixed opinions about this.

As a practical matter, the average American has zero influence on this, nor benefits from it.  If anything, our foreign policy and trade (really just purchases of goods from others ) costs us a lot of money and good will.

Every crime is not terrorism.  Classifying it as such just weakens its real impact and how to correctly deal with it.


 

I'm fairly sure those kids and teachers who come face to face with an armed nutter feel something approaching fucking terrified.

So what do you consider to be the difference?

Most every victim of a crime feels terrified.  Imagine if your wife, daughter, sister or friend were raped - that is a pretty terrifying experience.  If you have ever been the first person that a woman stumbles to after that experience, I can tell you first hand they have been through a lot.

Is it a really bad crime - yes.
Does your mind wander into revenge mode - yes
Is it terrorism - no
Is it a so called "hate crime" - no

For the most part, the very few school shootings that have occurred have been crimes of revenge against bullying.  No one wants to say that out loud, but it is true.  Unfortunately, there were innocent victims involved as well, which speaks to the larger reason that bullying needs to be controlled much more closely in middle and high schools.

Were these killings a really bad crime - yes
Is it terrorism - no

Terrorism is part of a larger war effort between two groups, typically governments or some type of at least semi-defined organization.  An attack is meant to cause not only the immediate damage, but longer term damage to the economy.

In some ways, you could label things as:
- If the "good guys" bomb someone, that is called "helping to bring peace, freedom, and democracy to a region
- If the "bad buys - whoever was bombed by the good guys" bomb someone, especially in a first world city, that is called terrorism.

Prosecutors and newspapers are always looking for a slick label to slap on people and events.  I am not condoning any of this behavior, I am just saying that if people start thinking that being robbed is equivalent to a war, then we end up putting a hair trigger on calling out the military.  It is a big step to call in a military solution, as their job is to not mess around.



 

Well that clarifies it, you're definitely not aware of the impact.

It's a shame, because I'm already pretty certain you're going to ignore what I've written - not going to give any of it any real thought because you're convinced you have it right and wont accept you've been conditioned as much as the people that listen to CNN, Fox, NBC, etc.

Still I'm a stubborn optimist, so what the hell...

 

>the [132 in the past decade] school shootings have been crimes of revenge against bullying. No one wants to say that out loud, but it is true

Yeah, a bit like when the bigger countrystudent beats you up and takes your oillunch over and over, and with your slightly odd friend whispering in your ear, you decide you've had enough and go batshit crazy.

If others get caught up in your retaliation, well, they never stopped the bully, never showed compassion or helped you up, they're obviously just as guilty.

(Of course, it's not really like that at all.)

> An attack is meant to cause not only the immediate damage, but longer term damage to the economy.

You know this because you've planned all the attacks? Or have had signed confessions from the perpetrators? Maybe you've written a thesis on the subject and have a whole swathe of research which enables you to discover this perfect truth?

> Terrorism is part of a larger war effort between two groups ...

Terrorism is a buzz word these days. Your attempted definition is no more or less valid than the other.

Stop worrying about that. If you care to, investigate and examine what's behind the word. See if you can figure out which bits of what you think you know are wrong and work out how to fix that, whilst accepting that some of those solutions will be mistakes that too need fixing.

Or, you know, just ignore me. I clearly know fuck all about anything and am not worth listening to.

I think Harry has a point though. My understanding of terrorism is that it's meant to intimidate a population into change - very few of the US school shootings seem motivated like that. They've had plenty of mass shootings in other places that are, still.

I think you make some well reasoned statements many of which I agree with (particularly regarding the strength of banks). However, Id be interested to hear why you think most schools shootings are for reasons other than revenge (in which I would include feelings of disenfranchisement) against bullying. Why do you feel they occur?   

I think, though the phrasing is awkward, that he is saying the majority of them are indeed for revenge. For some reason also saying "the very few" in there to imply there aren't actually many school shootings at all. Which I suppose is one of those "relative to what?" questions because I'd say there's been loads of them in the last decade.

Yeah, my understanding is that terrorism involves something-like political motivations. Not *necessarily* a desire to force change but at least a *politically* grounded discontentment.

I think people labelling school shootings as terrorism is in response to the situation where any violence by Muslims tends to get labelled as terrorism and some white terrorism is not labelled as such. Imo it muddies the waters though.

I appreciate what you are trying to be subtle about in your words, and your self control in how you are posting it.

It is useful to recall that most of the "old wealth money" in the UK and a good chunk of the EU was obtained with pretty heavy hands during the colonial era, so neither of us can really throw stones about this.  Similar to today, most people didn't really benefit from this, just a few.

My main point is that the concerns you have about US policy and how things get trampled on will not really change substantially by who is elected President of the US.  Even if it were the case that this was actually important, the vote of a substantial portion of the electorate is nearly irrelevant.

There are some states that nearly always will vote Dem or Rep, and in most cases, this means that the entire electoral vote for that state goes to that candidate. In only a handful of states can this needle be moved enough to make a change.

In my own case, by the time the primary elections reach California, the candidate selection for each party is more or less completed.  In the main presidential election, I can vote for any candidate I want very freely and without concern, because CA will vote Dem no matter what.

Since I travel quite a bit in my work, I have tended to vote by mail.  It turns out that for nearly 20 years, the county vote counters never even opened these ballots and just said "statistically, they probably voted like everyone else, so there is no need to open them."  Fortunately, this changed in the past few years, but it was kind of annoying.

 

Yes, you are correct, I am saying that the majority appear to be revenge related, and the total is not very many, which of course is a good thing.  Yes this is just my own personal opinion based on reading everything I could find on the subject, not only from our own local news sources, but also international web news, psychological analysis of professionals, and some other information sources I have.

I agree that I am not an expert in this area, even if I think I know what I am talking about.
 

Actually, the main reason that I am posting on this forum is that I am thinking about using Beehive forum s/w for a sort of small company communications, not to talk politics.  If anyone would like to look at the thread I started on this topic area and maybe comment on some of the questions in my long winded first post, that would really be appreciated.

That was the point I was trying to make. Just because they're Muslim doesn't mean it's terrorism/politically motivated. When the white Christians shoot a place up and talk about God it doesn't seem to be considered terrorism, but when the brown Muslims do the same it is instantly terrorism.

You're welcome to continue contributing, another opposing voice is appreciated.

'sactly.

I think revenge against bullying *may be* a factor in *some* of the domestic US mass shootings, but unquestionably the main factor is the ubiquity and easy access to guns. I believe that terrorism is indeed a motivation underlying the staging of these spectacular acts, clearly intended to garner as much publicity as possible. The US needs to look at gun culture as an extremely dangerous and insidious form of terrorism within American society that thus far has inflicted far more death and destruction than any external threat.

I'd like to see your face on that one. I don't think I have ever heard a bigger bullshite statement in my life. So let's see your source on that whopper. Last mass shooting I remember God being mentioned, the shooter targeted Christians.

Daft.

You need to read about some real studies on threat-assessment data instead of making crap up in your mind.

Ah yes, It appears I misread, my mistake :)