I'd consider a lathe to be 'complex goods', so he'd also have to wait while you turned a few table legs :D

This story has 'buyer's scam' writ large all over it. He wants a free lathe. May even be a fence who takes orders for stuff. Seems pretty fucking confident to both sign for it AND submit photos of obvious damage. Nope, this is a scam.

Here you have to note visible damage to the package when you sign, if you expect to collect anything. Otherwise the shipping co. just says it wasn't packed correctly (which is often true). Wet? Torn open? Fuggedaboutit.

well, if that's the case he has been planning it for a long time, there is no indication anywhere in his eBay feedback that he has tried anything dodgy with anyone else

and, I don't see what he could gain by smashing it up

He may have one with broken parts he intends to swap in from yours? It fell over in a wet basement? I dunno. just smells real fishy.

Perhaps you see it differently, but once a shipper accepts a package, it is their responsibility to see that it gets delivered with no damage. Ever seen package handling at a hub?

A buyer who buys an item needs to have it shipped. If bought from eBay, buyer acknowledges what the shipping terms are or can ask for alternate shipping. It doesn't matter who "picks" the shipping company, they are a contractor. As such, they were contracted to deliver a package and it is assumed that the package will be delivered damage - fee.

In the shipping and receiving business, it is the receiver of the goods who reports damage, not the shipper; it is called a bailment situation. The package was in the delivery company's care, custody and control. Once delivered, it is in the receiver's CCC. If the receiver noted no damage to a delivered package and signed for it in the presence of the deliverer as being accepted Delivered in Good Condition, the receiver accepts all loss at that point. The only exception is concealed damage, such as a box being partially crushed but the container remains otherwise intact. At that point, the receiver should either open the package in the presence of the deliverer, or sign for the package, noting damage. Same applies with a package that has burst.

This isn't that difficult, guys. Stop reading more into it than necessary, eBay be damned.

>> ~~~ Why would anyone sign for this ? ~~~ <<

Answer that, and problem solved. Does it make sense? No.

So why is the Buyer contacting the Seller?
 

eBay/paypal has the money so they get to make the rules

>> So why is the Buyer contacting the Seller? <<

because that is his easiest option, eBay has my money, if I don't fix this they will just give it back to him
 

Glad I don't buy/sell stuff through ebay.

it's usually ok, I've been using the site for over 15 years with very few issuse

>>This isn't that difficult, guys. Stop reading more into it than necessary, eBay be damned.

Point is that, under UK consumer law at least, you sign to say a package has been received, not that it's in any given condition or free from damage.

Now obviously the buyer is an asshat for signing for anything when it was clearly fucked, but I know plenty of people who could and would be pressurised into signing for it. Woudn't even be surprised if the courier tried it on saying "you're just signing to say it's received, you'll need to fill out a claim form  to get it sorted".

I've also had couriers turn up at my flat door (2nd floor) with their handheld computermabob asking me to sign for stuff that they haven't even got out of the van yet "wanted to make sure you were in before I lugged it up here" is the usual excuse). I'm always doubly suspicious when they try that!

I logged into my eBay and curiously there is no mention of what happens when a package is received damaged, only mention is damaged merchandise.

I'd contact eBay via Email then call eBay and get someone on the phone, if that is possible. Regardless, the buyer's beef would have been with the shipper, but he clearly neglected to properly note damage in shipping. To me, that is a dick move if he figured he could just shove it back on you due to vague or non-existent eBay policy for Damage in Transit. I suspect they have no policy because they know at that point it is out of their control.

Having been a shipping clerk myself, I can tell you by the looks of the packaging, it was insufficiently packed for transit. If you will rise up in righteous indignation at that conclusion, then revert back to the Buyer's failing to note Transit damage and come to a conclusion there.

Good luck with it.

I was a shipping clerk long time ago. Interesting trade.

>> Point is that, under UK consumer law at least, you sign to say a package has been received, not that it's in any given condition or free from damage. <<

I find that very hard to believe. With all the rules and regulations the U.K. has (not that we don't have as many or more) it is inconceivable to me that Consumer Law does not address this.

I don't know how Jon shipped the parcel, but: Mail
 

Until they changed everything in the buyers favor.  I've had an eBay account for ages and stopped selling anything once I started getting scammed like you are.  You have no power, but the buyer sure does.  He's about to get a free lathe from you and you can't do anything about it!  The burden of proof is 100% on you when it shouldn't be!  Fuck eBay.

It was a brand new purpose bought box and contained a lot more bubble-wrap etc when it left here.

This really isn't about laws and regulations and suchlike, eBay's policy is "buyers are happy or the seller sorts it out"

They have frozen my money, I can't touch it until this is fixed, it's eBay's game and you have to play by eBay rules.

Obviously laws and regulations etc over-rule eBay, but that's a long-term much-hassle route, for now at least it's down to me to sort it out.

Find it as hard as you like, but if you look up there ^^^ you'll see the post I made quoting the Unfair Contract Terms with reference to couriers, linked back to the UK Gov website.

Royal Mail is governed by totally separate laws and rules to couriers as they provide a regulated postal service, however after a good scan of that link I didn't see anything about signatures invalidating claims.

'Tis true the EU favors statutory consumer protections over buyer beware.

Jon, I understand what you are saying, about the box being new, etc. But just because you had a new box and bubble wrap doesn't mean that that the packaging was adequate.

Something that it heavy, particularly if it is irregularly shaped, is not easy to package. I'd have used two cartons for that parcel, and I'd have packed it so that there was no way for the wieght inside to move. Movement = breakage. I learned that early on. I didn;t want to be responsible for damaged packages, so I learned early on how to make them impervious to transit damage. Even the packages I exported to Canada made it without bursting. But that was my profession at the time, it is certainly unreasonable to expect a casual shipper to package professionally.

I'd probably find another way to sell from here o out were it mean, Doesn't worth it.