Hey, it's not our fault. You're the ones who decided to set up some assbackwards new country where you worship money and do things incorrectly.

When we call phone things which require input they tell us, where appropriate, to press the hash key. Because that is what it is called. I think you need another constitutional amendment to fix this.

oh man, I'm sitting here laughing at that. Your logic can't be denied.

 

Hey on a completely unrelated topic. Who is Geert Wilder? I am reading a speech he gave today? about Islam. Would love to hear your position on it if you've read it.

Ok from a quick google he's a neonazi politician from Holland. So no doubt I'll be disagreeing.

This is the speech I'm reading.

That site's title is oxymoronic.

<has a read>

(fail) you're so mean. I think you and Mr. Bastard are brothers.

Yeah, I don't think you'll be agreeing with him. This is his wiki.

I'm not going to post any more about it until you reply because I'm pretty sure my view on Islam is very different than yours or others here. And not ever really known any Muslims I can't be sure my opinion is correct. Because, of course, mine is based on the few who thought it would be cool to fly fucking jets into sky scrappers. And that would be like you having a view on all Christian or other religions because of the few nut jobs you see from American TV.

Ok had a quick skim and yeah it's just the usual neo-nazi nonsense.

I think firstly you have to separate Islam out from the behaviour of Islamic states and individuals. The actions of these states and peopel is no more representative of Islam than the USA's actions are of Christianity. The IRA were not Christian terrorists, they were just terrorists (or freedom fighters, depending on perspective). Those Catholic Priests who sexually abused children were not representative of Christianity. The Tokugawa Shogunate were not representative of Buddhism. And so on and so on.

The west is not "under attack" by Islam. Western culture will certainly be influenced by large numbers of Muslim immigrants, just as it was by countless waves of other immigrants over the millennia. The slightly hidden assumption is that this is a bad thing, which remains to be proven.

It's the same old stuff. It used to be (in Europe/Britain) directed against the Jews (well, the Jews still get it, sadly). Then it was the blacks and Indians, then the Pakistanis and now it's the Muslims in general and to a lesser extent the Eastern Europeans. There's nothing new in it and its no more a compelling argument now than it was 500 years ago.

We're always afraid of people we see as 'other' encroaching on what we see as ours. And we're always afraid that our culture will be eroded, which supposes that culture was ever a fixed, static thing and that it's something that can and should be protected, which is pretty ridiculous.

H8rs gonna h8.

You're right on about that, so how can you be so wrong about the (#) pound key?

Stop eroding my culture you fucking muslim.

You watch it mister, or I'll whatever the bad things muslim's do and you won't like it!

:C

Ok now I really am going to go try DX:HR

Have fun. I'll talk to you tomorrow!

Sorry, still here. Do you know who Pat Condell is?

Only after a quick wiki. Seems to be another dick.

haha, you kill me man! I don't think he's a dick. Watch this if you get time.

Yeah, definitely a dick. Talking a lot of shit.

Again, he's conflating the actions of people who profess to be Muslims with the religion Islam. He's also using "the news" as evidence for Islamic violence :? News organisations have a vested interest in stirring things up and also are by default representing 'our' (western, non-muslim) perspective. Ask the people of Afghanistan and Iraq whether Muslims or Christians are more violent.

It's valid to criticise Islam (or any other religion), it's valid to criticise Islamic culture (which is separate from but related to the religion of course), it's valid to criticise state actions and it's valid to criticise the actions of individuals. It's invalid to conflate all that into one thing and pretend that one is indicative or representative of the other.

The Muslim world is as varied and as potentially violent as the Christian world. People are varied and, often, violent.

Some people who would identify as culturally or religiously Islamic or both feel, quite understandably, that their culture is under attack from and risks being subsumed by American culture. I think this is more realistic - this fear that global free market economics and the multinational corporations which represent that ideology, along with the governments which are funded by that ideology and happen to be the richest and best-armed nations in the world pose a threat to Islamic culture - than to think that immigrants from Islamic countries will collapse western democratic capitalism by wearing different clothes and building some mosques.

It's just ridiculous.

It's complex, and he's trying to pretend it's simple in order to entertain xenophobes and idiots.

I want to continue this, but I must get to bed.

 

You and I could have some nice drunk discussions on shit like this, that seems to be about the only time I get passionate about much. And most usually it's the only time where I put logic away and follow blind faith in the, "it's always been that way, and I'm sure I'm right" kind of thinking.

 

I remember having those kinds of discussions with friends when I was younger. You never change anyone's mind but it is sometimes good for the soul.

 

But I did rather enjoy listening to that guy. He does make is sound much simpler than it is. Nothing is ever simple, but I think he had a few good points. Anyway there Ice Cube, have a good one. Peace.

(hug) Sleep well.

And when you wake up, let me know what you think his good points were.

I can't. I haven't slept well in 3 nights now. My fucking back is killing me.

 

But I'm ashamed to say that I agreed with most of what he said, but prefacing that again, saying that I only know about Islam and muslims from the news. And I think we can both agree, you only see the bad stuff there.

 

I don't personally know anyone who follows that religion, and I haven't had them come threaten me. So take that for what it's worth. Not much :-/