The Sopranos (1999-2007) - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.0&return_msg=43032.1"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.21">21–28</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=43032.1">The Sopranos (1999-2007)</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="43032_1_28_10"> <a name="a43032_1"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_1"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 22:27</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">1 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1">43032.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> So I finally got around to watching this after 25 years of intending to.<br /> <br /> It's as good as everyone said it was!<br /> <br /> I can't think of a show that made me feel more love towards such reprehensible pieces of shit. It makes you examine yourself a bit. Also it's a lot of fun.<br /> <br /> And that final scene was exquisite.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 9 May 22:27 by X3N0PH0N</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.1&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.1"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_2"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_2"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">10 May 19:53</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 10 May 21:10"></span></span> <span class="message_count">2 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.2">43032.2</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_1" target="_self">43032.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The final scene was as close to perfect television as anything I've ever seen.<br /> <br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.2&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.2"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">10 May 21:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 11 May 09:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.3">43032.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_2" target="_self">43032.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Absolutely agree. I sat there kinda awestruck for a bit and then rewound it and watched it 7 more times.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.3&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">30 May 16:53</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 13:16"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.4">43032.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_3" target="_self">43032.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Considering there are only 3 posts, I've spent an awful lot of time thinking about this. Or more accurately, about television. It gets a lot of bad mouthing about being a generally second-rate and somehow lazy medium, whether it's art or not. Any old how, I like watching television. I mean, not all the time, but quite a lot. It's been having a major impact on the world for about 70 years now. That's already about a third of the time the Renaissance lasted, so we might begin to take it seriously. I've been wondering about what the best television is that I've seen. The telly that had the biggest impact on me. I'll open with the first thing that springs to mind. He certainly had his faults, but I offer Dennis Potter's <em>The Singing Detective. </em></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.4&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 13:57</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 21:06"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.5">43032.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_4" target="_self">43032.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> We are the TV generations. It's weird to think that something that was such a huge part of the shared cultural fabric is kinda gone now. Serialised entertaininment (which I'll continue to call TV) will stay with us of course but the broadly-shared aspect is gone.<br /> <br /> I do think streaming has had a positive effect though. The latter days of broadcast TV were fucking grim. Streaming has re-enabled, and lowered the bar to, experimentation I think. There's a *lot* of good 'TV' around. Coupla examples of recent good stuff off the top of my head: Succession and The Expanse. Calls was also great, and interestingly playful with the form (if a little up its own arse, it was essentially a radio play and we've had those before). Enjoyed it though. Barry. Atlanta. Ozark. The Americans. All good.<br /> <br /> (Also, much as I don't like music, I *love* <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlgWqcHXD8w">the succession theme </a>tune and never skipped it)<br /> <br /> I was a bit too young for The Singing Detective. I remember my parents watching it and watching along and enjoying but not really understanding.<br /> <br /> Best *ever* is fucking *hard* though. I'm always a bit biased towards what I've enjoyed most recently. Also sometimes find it hard to distinguish between what I enjoy and what's *really* good.<br /> <br /> I think Arrested Development is the best TV comedy of all time, hands down. I realise that'll be contentious. Trailer Park Boys is also up there for me. The first few seasons were kinda special (it quite quickly went to shit and then *really* went to shit) and prefigured stuff like the (US) Office and Parks and Rec. I think (which I don't think the UK Ofice did really).<br /> <br /> I think King of the Hill goes under-appreicated. I know it's well-liked but I don't think what it did is appreciated enough. A sympatheticly written Republican-voting, sourthern, latently racist working class white dude. Imagine that today.<br /> <br /> And I think Roseanne deserves some credit. A sitcom about an *actually* working class family was a big step for the US. And paved the way for a lot that came after. Not uncommon to have working class families in such things in the UK but that was always derisory or were grim and depressing (or alienatingly londony). The was a warmth to Roseanne that resonated with me as a kid who grew up in working class communities.<br /> <br /> Oh, The Thick of It. Just fucking incisive. Standing on the shoulders of Yes Minister for sure but surpassed it, I think. Yes Minister's never as good as I remember it when I have a rewatch.<br /> <br /> But comedy's easier. Otherwise...<br /> <br /> I honestly think The Sopranos is up there. It was *so good* at making me uncomfortable in my affections. And that final scene was, as you say, perfection. Sure it was a soap opera in places but it was never *only* that.<br /> <br /> Twin Peaks might have to be up there too. I don't love it, myself, but I do respect it.<br /> <br /> I'm struggling. I'll have to throw Succession in there though I worry about recency bias. It's certainly very good.<br /> <br /> But everything that comes to mind is really just straightforward drama. Nothing that's really *clever* or *creative* while being serious in the way that The Singing Detective was. And Twin Peaks, to an extent.<br /> <br /> Worst TV I find very easy cos it was recent: Fallout.<br /> <br /> Very slick, the production was lovely. But I've genuinely never watched anything dumber. It's even dumber than something like the Marvel movies. It's like it was written by AI. And people *love* it.<br /> <br /> (I'll continue to think on best cos I feel like I'm missing stuff)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 4 Jun 14:00 by X3N0PH0N</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.5&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 14:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 14:05"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.6">43032.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_5" target="_self">43032.5</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The reason I don't *quite* put Succession up there is that while it made me *sympathise* with these moral black holes of characters it never made me *love* them like Sopranos did. It lacked that extra layer which made Sopranos so clever.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.6&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 5 Jun 13:55</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 5 Jun 14:28"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.7">43032.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_5" target="_self">43032.5</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I feel like Arrested Development was possibly the best at its peak but the later series kinda soured it a bit, like that one where the cast were almost never in the same room so it's nearly all greenscreened. So few comedies manage to keep the bar high throughout. Similar with Community. Still, it lives in my head forever, can't hear the word bees or beads without the whole BEES/BEADS thing playing out in my mind, or angrily saying it's not a trick it's an illusion and so on.<br /> <br /> I know what you mean about recency bias, I end up second guessing myself on everything. Well, except for Deadwood which has overcome that for me to a silly degree where I just won't question it or hear any contrary opinion now. Cowboys constantly talking in some sort of baroque Shakespeareanesque ludicrous dialogue is unbeatable. I don't really have the vocabulary to express it properly.<br /> <br /> here's a recent one:<br /> Severance (apple tv) is dead good but A: I keep thinking it might be Succession and it isn't at all but the names are quite similar B: only one series so far, could blow it. Still, it was a very good series and I will be eager to try the second.<br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.7&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 5 Jun 14:42</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Jun 14:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.8">43032.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_7" target="_self">43032.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, those latter Arrested Development seasons were rough. Not quite as bad as the consensus would hold, I think, and I liked that they tried something new rather than just more of the same. But yeah, not as good, certainly. But I agree, most comedy tends to go that way when it outlives itself.<br /> <br /> (I don't think anything else on TV has made gut-laugh as hard as "Bob Loblaw", dunno why that's the one that landed best for me)<br /> <br /> Community at its best was exceptionally good. But its lows were prety low too. And it was never quite as clever as it thought it was.<br /> <br /> Deadwood I need to continue with. I got sidetracked. Very much enjoyed what I'd seen though.<br /> <br /> And yeah, Severance is great. I nearly mentioned that among my recent ones. *But*... I'm worried that it's just going to be a mystery box thing à la Lost or whatever. Though that one scene, where the dude from the pizza shop in Do the Right Thing is getting interviewed by the lady with the long face from The 100 in the kinda HR assessment thing - that's one of my favourite scenes of TV ever. I rewound and rewatched that like 15 times in a row. It's exquisite.<br /> <br /> Show you might like, got something in common with Severance but more actiony: The Peripheral.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.8&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 5 Jun 14:46</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Jun 14:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.9">43032.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_7" target="_self">43032.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> One notable thing about Arrested Development which sets it apart from most other sitcoms is that it was perfect right from the first episode. They knew *exactly* what they wanted it to be from the outset rather than having to find it as they went along, as most others do.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.9&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.9"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43032_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_43032_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)<span class="message_time"> 6 Jun 08:37</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Jun 14:39"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 28</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.10">43032.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43032.1#a43032_8" target="_self">43032.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> > The Peripheral<br /> <br /> I kind of enjoyed this, but I'd read the book, and I wonder how it played for people who haven't. Especially in the final episodes, it kind of left me wondering what the point of it was, and since they never did a second season, I guess we'll never know. Still waiting for the third book in the trilogy, but I didn't find the second (Agency) to be particularly engaging.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43032.10&return_msg=43032.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43032.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="43032.11" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>