Is the Labour party now so sick, it's fit for power? - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.0&return_msg=43031.25"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.21">21–26</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=43031.25">Is the Labour party now so sick, it's fit for power?</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="43031_25_26_10"> <a name="a43031_25"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_25"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 20:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 21:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">25 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.25">43031.25</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.24">43031.24</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, on reported figures, Remain spent about half as much again. Remain about £19.3m and Leave about £13.3m. Set aside arguments about whether those are honest figures, the interesting points are about the natures of the campaigns.<br /> <br /> Actually, that's not true. I don't really care about that. It's been said over and over and it isn't going to make one iota of difference.<br /> <br /> What really bothers me are the actual arguments for and against, which we heard precious little of at the time. We heard a lot of vague bollocks about "stronger together" just like the devolution arguments. We heard a lot of scare stories which were a piece of piss to describe as scare stories. (several if not most turned out to be true but wtf). On the leave side we had a load of stuff about how our borders were being overrun with Turks and refugees, but very little about why we might legitimately fear the EU: the consolidation of political and economic power into every smaller and more anonymous power groups. The distancing of policy decisions from people actually affected. And so on.<br /> <br /> Of course, the reasons are obvious - or rather, some of them are. The leaders of Leave and Remain had huge amounts in common. They both saw the anti-woke culture war as a positive force. They both wanted the forces that allow accumulation of personal wealth to remain intact. Neither side wanted to describe racial and cultural mixing as a positive. The truly incredible benefit of the EU, that it is almost impossible to have a fighting war when you share a trading union, have free movement, and elect people (including shits like Farage) to a shared parliament, was never even considered. Yeah, there was some comment about a war-free Europe, but it was pretty low key stuff. Even the old cunt Churchill knew it was a good idea. In the end, the remain side simply wanted to share the values of the leave side too much to give the arguments a decent airing. I blame Corbyn as much as anybody for this. He was horribly stuck in the anti-corporate distrust that he shared with Tony Benn. Benn always identified the loss of sovereignty as his big objection, but I don't believe this.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.25&return_msg=43031.25" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.25"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_26"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_26"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 21:16</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">26 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.26">43031.26</a></div> <div class="message_body"> That's all really well put and I agree entirely.<br /> <br /> The Turks are at the fucking gates.<br /> <br /> Not sure how much I'd blame Corbyn, since he was really born (as a public figure) into the aftermath, but if you're saying he failed to put forward the *actual* pros and cons then, yeah. Though strategically I do think it was better to just say as little as possible about brexit at that point.<br /> <br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.26&return_msg=43031.25" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.26"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </body>