Is the Labour party now so sick, it's fit for power? - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.0&return_msg=43031.1"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.21">21–26</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=43031.1">Is the Labour party now so sick, it's fit for power?</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="43031_1_26_10"> <a name="a43031_1"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_1"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 11:24</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">1 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1">43031.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/09/labour-chair-defends-decision-admit-natalie-elphicke-diane-abbott-anneliese-dodds-">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/09/labour-chair-defends-decision-admit-natalie-elphicke-diane-abbott-anneliese-dodds-</a><br /> <br /> Seriously, WTF?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.1&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.1"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_2"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_2"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 19:27</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 10 May 22:53"></span></span> <span class="message_count">2 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.2">43031.2</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_1" target="_self">43031.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The Labour party is, at the moment, run by a small right-wing clique with a majority amongst members of parliament and, more importantly, the internal parliamentary admininistration. Natalie Elphicke is a perfectly fine fit with their views. The problem they have isn't reconciling a right-wing MP with the left-wing liberal Labour party, it's creating a narrative that the press can use that this isn't really happening. I say this as a member. At the moment. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.2&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.2"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 20:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 20:06"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.3">43031.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_2" target="_self">43031.2</a></div> <div class="message_body"> One of the things I hate most about this whole situation is that it reinforces the idea that in order to win, Labour has to be a centre-right party. When really it's mostly just the tories imploding.<br /> <br /> As to whether they gain more votes with a left agenda motivating people who don't usually vote vs. a centrist agenda where they soak up disaffected tories, I dunno. *Probably* the latter. But I'm certain they'd be heading for an at least decent majority with a left agenda. And that's so fucking frustrating.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.3&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 20:35</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 20:38"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.4">43031.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_3" target="_self">43031.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I suppose I'm naive, but most of my personal contact with Labour has been contact with lovely people. I suppose that's because I meet those who actually do the grunt stuff: organising, delivering leaflets, canvassing, running social stuff like food banks and advice points etc. Then I hear that we're just the scum that the party needs to shake off.<br /> <br /> I just can't bear to do it anymore. The leadership are not decent people. <br /> <br /> AFAIK I only get one crack at this and I'm at leat 80% through it. I think I'll do something else.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.4&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 20:46</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 21:32"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.5">43031.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_4" target="_self">43031.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Oh yeah, I mean the PLP of course. And it just adds to the frustration that most Labour members are way to the left of the leadership. And that gets more true the more involved they are. Every normal Labour member/activist I interact with is lovely.<br /> <br /> I get all the arguments against it but I really think we need an explicitly and unalterably socialist party. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.5&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 21:40</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 21:45"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.6">43031.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_5" target="_self">43031.5</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">we need an explicitly and unalterably socialist party.</div> <br /> Ha ha - word!<br /> <br /> Won't happen though. Not while the present voting arrangements suit the incumbents so well. I spent some time over the last few weeks distributing leaflets for make votes matter. Waste of time and I had to rub shoulders with LibDems, but you have to start somewhere. Also, could get me expelled from the party i suppose. But since I'm thinking of resigning after nearly forty years...<br /> <br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 9 May 21:40 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.6&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 21:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 21:56"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.7">43031.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_6" target="_self">43031.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Ahhh shit, after 40 years, that's a big deal.<br /> <br /> I joined for Corbyn, stayed for the election to replace him, left after the result.<br /> <br /> And yeah we need PR. Or a media willing to give as much time to a left party as they did to UKIP.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.7&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 22:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 9 May 22:08"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.8">43031.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_7" target="_self">43031.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, it kind of is. Well, for me anyway. Joined as a very junior union rep in 1976. Left for a few years while I did other things. Joined again in 1985 when I became a union rep again. Never voted any other way. Worked for a few different local parties over the years. Never known this sort of hostility. Not even under Callaghan/Kinnock and that was bad. Haven't had much to do with the local party over the last few years and feel pretty guilty about that seeing as the leader is Beccy Cooper (Hilary Schan's friend) and she's a really fab councillor.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.8&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time"> 9 May 22:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 10 May 17:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.9">43031.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_8" target="_self">43031.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> How's the hostility expressed?<br /> <br /> And it's worse now than under Blair? </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.9&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43031_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_43031_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Dave!!<span class="message_time">10 May 07:47</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 10 May 13:19"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 26</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.10">43031.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43031.1#a43031_7" target="_self">43031.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think we need both. PR is long overdue to give smaller parties a fair chance at representation.<br /> <br /> The media problem is that a party catering to the people rather than the rich will always draw the hostility of most the media owners (many of whom are Tory donors). Hence why there's so many pro-Tory papers willing to overlook the sheer clusterfuck of the past few years, yet more than happy to moan repeatedly about Rayner possibly gaining a couple of grand from a council tax issue.<br /> <br /> The problem is that so many people fall for it. They're indoctrinated to believe that the Tories have their best interests at heart - despite the parties, tractor porn, incompetence and raking in billions from cronyism. These are the same people fooled into voting for Brexit with the promises of a better-funded NHS, sunlit uplands and all that shit. Whereas if those people tried to really think about it instead of just believing the papers, they'd realise that isolating ourselves from our closest and biggest trading partners would inevitably leave the country and themselves worse off.<br /> <br /> Not saying those people are stupid, it's always easier to read something uplifting and have faith in it rather than to think with a more careful, balanced and pessimist attitude. Taking the easier and more optimistic approach is what this side of the media counts upon.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43031.10&return_msg=43031.1" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43031.10"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="43031.11" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>