Instant cameras - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.0&return_msg=43008.7"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.11">11–17</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=43008.7">Instant cameras</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="43008_7_17_10"> <a name="a43008_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">29 Jan 10:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jan 13:35"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7">43008.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.5">43008.5</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Shhh, it's a rebadged fuji mini evo.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.7&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">29 Jan 15:08</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jan 16:47"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.8">43008.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_7" target="_self">43008.7</a></div> <div class="message_body"> So I hear, although apparently it isn't. Leica have licensed just about everything from Fuji and based a lot of it on the mini evo, but they make it themselves. So they say. To be fair, a closer look and the build is different. The Leica has a Leica lens for example, and the body has an expensive glass finish. The photos I've seen online appear better than the ouput of cheaper Fuji and Polaroid offerings, but are still outshone by even the most budget of budget phones.<br /> <br /> It seems that the main reason for the poor quality is the limited resolution of the film. Physically the particles it uses are far coarser than on conventional film. It's also very particular about exposure levels and has a very narrow bandwidth for exposures. It seems that back in the olden times, Polaroid instant film was superior in quality, but some of the chemicals used are no longer permitted.<br /> <br /> That doesn't quite explain why the lenses on these cameras, Leica or otherwise, are so miniscule. The Leica lens has a diameter of 2.4 mm which is half what a modern camera phone uses. These two Fuji/Leica cameras are hybrids: they store images in memory and then expose film with an internal LED array on demand. Needless to say they use miniscule CMOS sensors, 2.9 by 2.2 mm so the resolution of around 5MP is pretty meaningless.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 29 Jan 15:09 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.8&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">29 Jan 17:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jan 19:32"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.9">43008.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_8" target="_self">43008.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Well, it's got some people hot and bothered, regardless of the mfg. provenance.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.9&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">29 Jan 21:51</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jan 23:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.10">43008.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_9" target="_self">43008.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Not surprised. Apparently the difference in picture quality for your monster extra cost isn't great. Plus the Fuji apps are much better. <br /> <br /> No doubt things will improve over the next few years until a vast glossy 10x8 in pin-sharp colour or B&W as you choose will unfurl from your pocket-sized Apple-Snapper. By which time the fad will be done.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.10&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 Feb 08:40</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Feb 09:08"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.11">43008.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.1">43008.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think the attraction is something fun with an instant physical result. In reality. Hardly anyone prints photos these days, especially day to day photos. So to have something physical in your hand right away is a lovely novelty.<br /> <br /> I have on occasion being using a Kodak Tele-Elektra 32 110 film camera. I found it in the side pocket of a camera bag that had an old 35mm camera and some lenses my parents got for me from a charity shop a few years ago. Not instant, film isn't cheap, development isn't cheap. But I do enjoy the process and the lower quality results. I need to use it more as there's pictures on my current film from a few months ago I want to see! </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.11&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">18 Feb 10:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Feb 13:16"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.12">43008.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_11" target="_self">43008.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's a novelty as you say, and I can see the attraction of having the physical print right there. Plus there's the performance as it snaps out like a big ticket from an old-fashioned bus conductor's machine.<br /> <br /> But for all that, the results don't compare with an old 110 camera. With a bit of care, it's possible to get decent pictures that even stand enlargement (a bit), whereas all of the photos I've see from (all three!!!) of my son's cameras are terrible. I'm talking about picture quality here. The composition is usually quite good, but everything else isn't. He takes a huge amount of trouble over trying to get the lighting right, using flash to fill in etc. but it's like the God of Photos tosses a coin to determine whether the output is going to be OK, or a complete waste of film, or something in between. I would say that it's roughly a three way split, with a third being wildly out of focus or under/over exposed to the point where the bin is appropriate, a third being like mediocre versions of 110 film shots and a third being almost as good. And, by the way, even those shots I describe as OK appear poorly exposed in some way or other, with bland colour or foggy B&W.<br /> <br /> Of course, none of this would be an issue if it was only a few pounds being wasted, but I reckon he's spent over a thousand quid in the last few weeks. His latest camera is <a href="https://www.polaroid.com/en_gb/products/i2-polaroid-camera?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping%20feed&utm_content=free%20google%20shopping%20clicks&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAn-2tBhDVARIsAGmStVlNLHfFNEk8me9uHR7gvP9xB3xwbTjHKzjERUFWfyCFVtWt07JjYyIaAnmCEALw_wcB">this</a>, which is £600 in the sale and cost him more. It looks the dog's danglers, and the write-up suggests you are investing in the ultimate in tech and quality. If only what squirts out of the camera was remotely as convincing.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.12&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 Feb 13:17</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Feb 22:42"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.13">43008.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_12" target="_self">43008.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Jesus christ, yeah that's ridiculous!<br /> Much better things to waste my money on. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.13&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">19 Feb 10:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Feb 10:39"></span></span> <span class="message_count">14 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.14">43008.14</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_12" target="_self">43008.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Waaay back in the '90s, Polaroid made large-format (18x24" ISTR) instant film that you could shoot in a purpose-built camera/studio for US$25 a pop, at (e.g.) the Boston Museum of Fine Art. The quality was really, really good. They also made b+w instant film that did a pretty decent negative from MF film backs. It's these dumb, modern plastic toys with shit lenses, and grossly inferior 'reverse-engineered' instant film that suck dogs balls.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.14&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_15"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_15"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">19 Feb 10:51</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Feb 13:46"></span></span> <span class="message_count">15 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.15">43008.15</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_14" target="_self">43008.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There's something odd going on. Maybe I should start a conspiracy theory. Apart from the cameras with tiny fixed focus lenses (more or less) which are a throwback to various points in the C20th, most of these ridiculously expensive toys appear to have all the build features of cameras that actually work. So why don't they? That said, it has been commented that the auto-exposure system on the expensive Polaroid I linked to is really bad. One wonders about the quality of other stuff like shutter etc. Of course, this isn't Polaroid the company that launched instant film. It's Polaroid the recent start-up under the steady hand of the Petters Group. (Yes, the Ponzi scheme that ended with founder Tom Petters in prison for 50 years amidst bankruptcies, drugs, ramapant fraud etc etc). Polaroid (mark 2) simply bought up all the licenses and trademarks.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.15&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.15"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a43008_16"></a><div class="message" id="message_43008_16"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">19 Feb 13:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Feb 15:17"></span></span> <span class="message_count">16 of 17</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.16">43008.16</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=43008.7#a43008_15" target="_self">43008.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Auto exposure of film is a solved problem since several decades ago. It was built into the cheapest point-and-shoot cameras, and performed pretty well, at least in daylight. I think the issue here is the film, poor latitude, stability, and qc in general? I guess it's some kind of a miracle as it is.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=43008.16&return_msg=43008.7" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="43008.16"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="43008.17" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>