General Election 2019 - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.0&return_msg=42505.75"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.51">51–60</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.61">61–70</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.71">71–80</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.81">81–90</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.91">91–94</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42505.75">General Election 2019</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42505_75_94_10"> <a name="a42505_75"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_75"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 16:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 17:12"></span></span> <span class="message_count">75 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75">42505.75</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.74">42505.74</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I agree, but there's still a zillion Guardian (etc) columnists filing opinions like "We need someone like David Milliband" for some reason.<br /> <br /> Instead of Leveson 2 we're going to lose what little the first one achieved now too. I don't have any kind of answer to this one at the moment.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.75&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.75"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_76"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_76"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 17:37</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 18:13"></span></span> <span class="message_count">76 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.76">42505.76</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_75" target="_self">42505.75</a></div> <div class="message_body"> > there's still a zillion Guardian (etc) columnists filing opinions like "We need someone like David Milliband" for some reason.<br /> <br /> That's OK -the people being targeted by the nefarious social media tactics probably aren't reading the Guardian, and aren't going to vote for him regardless, but probably not for the reasons the Guardian columnists think. If Labour want to come back from the abyss, they need to look at why so many so-called "safe" Labour seats turned out not to be safe after all.<br /> <br /> I'm still trying to get my head round it all myself, but it really does seem that Corbyn was absolute poison to people across a wide and diverse range of demographics. The IRA stuff stuck. The Hamas stuff stuck. The scruffiness stuck. The not watching the Queen's Speech probably stuck. The fence-sitting on Brexit meant neither side trusted him. The fact that he's a beardy throwback to some kind of '70s TV sitcom version of Labour with a wee cap and an allotment.The belief that Labour's financial policies are unworkable stuck. People STILL don't seem to understand how tax bands work. His attitude to Scotland and the SNP meant that up here, I saw plenty of Facebook posts from people voting SNP urging their English friends to vote Labour.<br /> <br /> My Facebook feed was filled with lots and lots of people who were very enthusiastically pro-Corbyn, but if I dipped into Boomerspace*, all kinds of anti-Corbyn stuff was cropping up, organically or otherwise.<br /> <br /> *I figure there needs to be a term for the bits of social media that are occupied by the less technically savvy. I mean, we've all been at it since long before social media was even a thing, but we are a tiny majority, and there's a huge parallel world of crappy Facebook "share if you agree" posts and people who actually read the comments under newspaper articles and people who share stuff about suspicious vans to their local area's Facebook groups, and all that kind of shite, and if we grew up thinking that "cyberspace" was kind of a rubbish term of t'interwebs back in the early 2000s, then it follows that "Boomerspace" is a perfectly acceptable term for what I'm describing. Mainly because when I thought about calling it "The Gammonsphere", I did a bit of a dry boak.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.76&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.76"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_77"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_77"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 18:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 18:21"></span></span> <span class="message_count">77 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.77">42505.77</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_76" target="_self">42505.76</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Someone in the Guardian did a good analysis a couple of weeks ago of how the demographics worked against Labour in these formerly industrial "safe" seats -- the young all hived off to cities for work, leaving behind their cranky OAP parents who tend to vote THAT way and are fed up with politicians of every stripe, but want to send a 'message' of the cut-off-own-nose kind. Kind of a passive gerrymandering when the constituencies aren't appropriately (+ timely) redrawn to reflect that.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.77&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.77"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_78"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_78"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 18:18</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 18:21"></span></span> <span class="message_count">78 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.78">42505.78</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_76" target="_self">42505.76</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I could get with Boomerspace. It reminds me of that Innerspace film as well which for some reason resonated with me as a kid.<br /> <br /> Regarding the Scotland thing, I'd understood that Scottish Labour was a poisoned well a good bit before Corbyn came to his late prominence, and did a fine job of getting itself torched in Scotland over the independence referendum and other things around that time. It seemed like he'd (or the entire leadership?) more or less abandoned any prospect of getting it back again now. I've not followed things at all closely up there though.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.78&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.78"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_79"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_79"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ)<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 18:30</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 20:30"></span></span> <span class="message_count">79 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.79">42505.79</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_78" target="_self">42505.78</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah, Labour's been fading to irrelevance in Scotland for years now, especially after the referendum, when people realised the dichotomy of them siding with the Tories against independence and the SNP in Scotland, but promoting policies suspiciously similar to those of the SNP in England. Corbyn's always come across as not quite understanding why Labour have declined so much in Scotland, and while the SNP indicated they would be open to some kind of working arrangement, it was rebuffed by Labour and used as a negative thing by the Tories.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.79&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.79"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_80"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_80"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 20:08</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Dec 2019 09:49"></span></span> <span class="message_count">80 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.80">42505.80</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_76" target="_self">42505.76</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <a href="https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1205249028637806592.html">This is the unroll of a Twitter thread </a>which I thought captured the problems the electorate had with Corbyn pretty well. It's couched in harsh terms - particularly the second tweet - but after that, it's rarely unfair. I think it also demonstrates why the current wine in a new bottle won't help.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.80&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.80"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_81"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_81"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 20:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 20:30"></span></span> <span class="message_count">81 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.81">42505.81</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_80" target="_self">42505.80</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Corbyn/Labour was polling way out front on the youth (18-44) vote just before the election<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/1067740/uk-general-election-poll-by-age/">https://www.statista.com/statistics/1067740/uk-general-election-poll-by-age/</a><br /> <br /> Isn't that something to build on, rather than outright trash?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.81&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.81"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_82"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_82"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 20:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 20:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">82 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.82">42505.82</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_81" target="_self">42505.81</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It shouldn't be trashed, of course, but it probably needs to be tempered - I think the youth vote was attracted to an idealism that deterred the oldies.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.82&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.82"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_83"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_83"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 20:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 20:42"></span></span> <span class="message_count">83 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.83">42505.83</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_82" target="_self">42505.82</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Dude, them oldies gonna die.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.83&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.83"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42505_84"></a><div class="message" id="message_42505_84"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">16 Dec 2019 20:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Dec 2019 20:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">84 of 94</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.84">42505.84</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42505.75#a42505_83" target="_self">42505.83</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Wish they'd fucking get on with it.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42505.84&return_msg=42505.75" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42505.84"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42505.85" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>