Brexit deal nigh or nyet? - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.0&return_msg=42264.70"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.51">51–60</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.61">61–70</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.71">71–80</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.81">81–90</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.191">191–200</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42264.70">Brexit deal nigh or nyet?</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42264_70_200_10"> <a name="a42264_70"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_70"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">13 Mar 2019 18:51</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 13 Mar 2019 19:47"></span></span> <span class="message_count">70 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70">42264.70</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.69">42264.69</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I'm sad to say I agree. I did say that political memories are short and I suppose there's also the rosy tint of passing time, but much as I loathed Thatcher and most of her ilk, and her successors, at least I could see that some of them (though obviously not many) were doing what they did because they believed it was for the public good. With the Tory party since the turn of the century, I see a resurgence of entitlement, a profound hatred of the idea of public provision and a horrible willingness to flirt with extreme right-wing populism. The predominant economic model of government is not to sustain the nation in any way but to normalise the process of driving wealth up to the rich and risk down to the poor. Banks and "Captains" of finance are no longer risk-takers; they will be bailed out if things go wrong.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.70&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.70"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_71"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_71"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">13 Mar 2019 19:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 13 Mar 2019 19:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">71 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.71">42264.71</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_70" target="_self">42264.70</a></div> <div class="message_body"> too true. My fear is that the current press are only too happy to misreport all this, and the public seem quite content to read it and accept lies at face value even when they contradict what the politician said earlier, later, was happening right next to them during the interview, pretty much anything really. Ugh.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.71&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.71"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_72"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_72"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">13 Mar 2019 21:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 13 Mar 2019 22:44"></span></span> <span class="message_count">72 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.72">42264.72</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.67">42264.67</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Probably a bird - liquids go down quicker - or maybe a pet rodent since it's less likely to overpower the cheese and ketchup. <p>According to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election#Polls_of_Conservative_Party_members">Wikipedia/YouGov</a>, the most recent (July 2018) Conservative party member poll has top three as Jacob Rees-Mogg, Ruth Davidson, Sajid Javid. Ambed Rudd is one of three marked as N/A, but it doesn't explain why. </p><p>Given that TM won the no confidence vote relatively comfortably, she can't be officially pushed before December, right? So she'd need to want to pass the chalice to someone specific to not stubbornly hold on?</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.72&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.72"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_73"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_73"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">13 Mar 2019 22:00</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 13 Mar 2019 22:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">73 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.73">42264.73</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_71" target="_self">42264.71</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The news cycle is far too quick right now. Resulting in there being very little risk to lying. There's far more news and outrage about something else before there's time to expose a liar. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.73&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.73"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_74"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_74"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">14 Mar 2019 12:56</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 14 Mar 2019 17:53"></span></span> <span class="message_count">74 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.74">42264.74</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_73" target="_self">42264.73</a></div> <div class="message_body"> 90% of the press are obviously hugely biased towards a right-wing and (because of their various proprietors) largely pro-leave viewpoint. The same applies to the news coverage on television, with the possible exception of Channel 4. The BBC doesn't even pretend to be unbiased any more, packing their news programmes with guests from the right, "interviewed" by extreme right-wingers like Andrew Neil, or Emily Maitlis* (and if anybody thinks that's unfair on Maitlis, remember that she works for the Spectator <em>for free</em>). When a guest from the left appears, they are invariably introduced with references to their being left-wing, or 'supporters of Jeremy Corbyn' before facing a barrage of sarcastic questions, expressions of disbelief, questions that are either actually accusations, or lengthy speeches supporting the establishment cause (I'm looking at you, wannabe renaissance-man Andrew Marr). <br /><br /> *there seems to be some kind of competition going on amongst BBC presenters at the moment to see how much they can get away with in verbal assaults on anybody from the Labour party or the left generally. Neil has the blue ribbon at the moment for his treatment of Owen Jones on the Daily Politics, but Maitlis challenged this when she asked Barry Gardiner the absurd question 'what Brexit Vision will be on Labour's manifesto in the event of a General Election next week?' Now given that NO political party has formulated an election manifesto because no election has been announced 2) The last Labour manifesto and probably the next will have far more input from the membership of the party than in previous years, Maitlis clearly knew that this was not the simple question she wanted it to sound like and the suggestion that he could answer in the few seconds available disingenuous. As soon as he started to speak, she started to interrupt, saying that his attempt at an answer was just 'what was on the leaflet' and accompanied this with furious body language: tossing her head impatiently, dramatic eye-roll to camera, acting out 'not listening' by writing on her notes finally refusing to let him speak. I'm not saying that Gardiner handled it well, but it was a deliberate trap, much in the Laura Kuenssberg tradition.<br /><br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 14 Mar 2019 12:59 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.74&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.74"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_75"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_75"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">14 Mar 2019 14:30</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 14 Mar 2019 16:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">75 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.75">42264.75</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_74" target="_self">42264.74</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The CBC here are performing a somewhat similar function, but perhaps with more subtlety ATM given the situation is less dire... my theory is they (publicly/gummint funded new organizations) are simply hedging their bets against the day a right-wing (or more extreme right-wing) government is in power, with the traditional howls (fueled by media-owning patrons) to defund socialist projects such as public television et al.<br /><br /> TLDR; They are running scared.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 14 Mar 2019 14:31 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.75&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.75"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_76"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_76"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">14 Mar 2019 20:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 15 Mar 2019 00:02"></span></span> <span class="message_count">76 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.76">42264.76</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_75" target="_self">42264.75</a></div> <div class="message_body"> yeah, here the BBC is (or was?) under severe threat of being defunded to the point of shutdown by any Conservative government. It seems to have made them afraid to present much in the way of opposing views, and a suspicious amount of their political journos either have second jobs or move on to their next jobs in conservative/right wing political orgs. That plus a bizarre mishandling of 'balance' making them feel the need to put one climate change denier on air for every story about how fucked the planet is... well, grr. It's a shame.<br /><br /> Pretty much all of the rest of the press is just owned and operated by rich people with everything to lose if a vaguely socialist Labour ever gets into power, so naturally they fight it and smear all the way.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.76&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.76"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_77"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_77"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">15 Mar 2019 07:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 15 Mar 2019 13:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">77 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.77">42264.77</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_74" target="_self">42264.74</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Not much to say to that apart from I agree, and that Andrew Neil is a cunt.<br /> <br /> As Milko mentioned, along with the bias, I hate him even more because of his climate change denial. That really really fucks me off. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.77&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.77"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_78"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_78"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">15 Mar 2019 16:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Mar 2019 07:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">78 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.78">42264.78</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.70#a42264_77" target="_self">42264.77</a></div> <div class="message_body"> He is, isn't he. And yeah, the climate change denial thing disgusts me. I really don't believe he's stupid enough to actually believe that nearly every climate scientist in the world is wrong and Breitbart is right. My conclusion is that he's actually lying because he doesn't give a fuck about the future and instinctively supports big business and its short-term greed.<br /><br /> I'm kind of puzzled by people like Andrew Neil. He's obviously intelligent. I mean he's not just a product of the entitlement system like Johnson or Rees Mogg, or intellectually limited like Mark Francois, so he must have chosen to be a bad person. And I assume he's quite comfortable with life, knowing that he's an awful human being. Weird.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.78&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.78"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_79"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_79"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">18 Mar 2019 18:27</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">79 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.79">42264.79</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Bercow just tossed a spanner into it.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.79&return_msg=42264.70" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.79"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42264.80" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>