Brexit deal nigh or nyet? - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.0&return_msg=42264.37"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.41">41–50</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.191">191–200</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42264.37">Brexit deal nigh or nyet?</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42264_37_200_10"> <a name="a42264_37"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_37"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 10:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 12:20"></span></span> <span class="message_count">37 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37">42264.37</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.35">42264.35</a></div> <div class="message_body"> the anti-semitism stuff seems almost entirely bullshit though. <br /><br /> and I don't agree he's become pro-Brexit, I think that's just more crappy reporting. He's honest and nuanced about it however!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.37&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.37"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_38"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_38"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 10:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 14:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">38 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.38">42264.38</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.36">42264.36</a></div> <div class="message_body"> nah, he's been absolutely clear (and then terribly reported) about this: he's about 7/10 in favour of the EU, saying that it has some serious problems (it does) that are better resolved from within and the downsides of leaving are worse than remaining and trying to improve it.<br /><br /> Obviously 99.9% of the press then report this as TRAITOR CORBS HATES YOU AND THE EU but there we are.<br /><br /> Today the PM won't move on the red lines and Corbyn wants her to remove the no-deal possibility as a condition of talks moving forward. So she says no. Watch in a few days where, by her own clever thinking and decision making entirely!, she says no deal won't work and we should avoid it at all costs. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.38&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.38"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_39"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_39"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 12:29</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 13:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">39 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.39">42264.39</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_38" target="_self">42264.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Problem is all MPs who voted to activate Article 50 knew by definition that if they don't agree to a transition deal that automatically results in a no deal Brexit. No deal Brexit would be catastrophic, but they knowingly voted for that.<br /> <br /> I agree the anti-semitism has been amplified somewhat, but it's still there on the (far) left.<br /> <br /> If he's not pro-Brexit is he then pro implementing the referendum result?<br /> Slightly different with it being a "will of the people" argument.<br /> <br /> He's said he would renegotiate a different deal with the EU, single market etc, so that says he'd go ahead with Brexit if in power. Jobs first Brexit and all that, which makes him sound very stupid, because Brexit is pretty much guaranteed to cause job losses in all versions of it. If he would actually do that obviously remains to be seen.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Jan 2019 12:30 by ANT_THOMAS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.39&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.39"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_40"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_40"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 14:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 16:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">40 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.40">42264.40</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_39" target="_self">42264.39</a></div> <div class="message_body"> All parliament have to be pro-democracy so none of them are going to say they'll reverse it immediately against 'the will of the fucking twats'. What's done is done until such time as they can persuade the masses that it's a bad idea to leave because of the downsides. Hopefully that renegotiation would get us there but given there's has been almost zero minds changed by the clusterfuck so far, I don't have much hope. ugh.<br /><br /> Regarding the far left, that's not really for Corbyn to personally do a lot about. The Party machinery has to do it, which is one of the things that make Labour good since its in the controls of the membership. The standards being asked are ludicrous compared to what many of the critics (EG press, tories) maintain themselves which is well below what Labour have ended up with now.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.40&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.40"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_41"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_41"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 14:34</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 16:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">41 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.41">42264.41</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_39" target="_self">42264.39</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There's an easy conflation for the mouth-foaming zionists, and Christian fundamentalists hankering for Armageddon to make, and some politically ambitious folks pander to, that all criticism of Israel and Zionism, and all support for Palestinians are ipso-facto anti-Semitic.<br /><br /> I think Corbyn's been consistently pretty careful to draw that line, while some acolytes and associates have not.<br /><br /> The unpleasant fact is that some Israeli Jews, including politicians in government, have declared open hatred of Arabs, and some Palestinians in the occupied territories, and the diaspora, have expressed hatred of Jews, so that kind of makes both those people literal anti-Semites, if you accept that both Arabs and Jews are Semitic (YMMV). It is what it is, and denying it sure AF don't help the situation<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Jan 2019 14:35 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.41&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.41"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_42"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_42"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 14:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 16:31"></span></span> <span class="message_count">42 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.42">42264.42</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_38" target="_self">42264.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> He's playing an interesting and rather dangerous game of liars' poker with May, and at this point I wouldn't bet on either coming out a winner, but the odds are good the UK will come out a loser if 1. May doesn't accept a Norway-ish custom union (assuming that is even possible, some say it isn't) or 2. Corbyn doesn't back a 2nd referendum RSN.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.42&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.42"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_43"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_43"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 16:32</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 16:50"></span></span> <span class="message_count">43 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.43">42264.43</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_42" target="_self">42264.42</a></div> <div class="message_body"> my current feeling is that a second referendum will also mean UK coming out a loser, but who knows!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.43&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.43"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_44"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_44"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 16:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 19:46"></span></span> <span class="message_count">44 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.44">42264.44</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_43" target="_self">42264.43</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Current polling appears to show the stay side would have it, but who knows what crazy lies would be spun by Putin et al to proceed with the trainwreck.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.44&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.44"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_45"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_45"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 20:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 20:47"></span></span> <span class="message_count">45 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.45">42264.45</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_39" target="_self">42264.39</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <i>> I agree the anti-semitism has been amplified somewhat, but it's still there on the (far) left.</i> <p>What <em>exactly</em> is still <em>where</em>? </p><p>Can you reference any academic studies that show a statistically significant increase in Jew hatred? </p><p>Or, like, just... <em>any</em> vaguely competent<em>ish</em> attempt at proving it's more than just lies, misinformation, and FUD.</p><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Jan 2019 20:02 by BOUGHTONP</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.45&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.45"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42264_46"></a><div class="message" id="message_42264_46"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Jan 2019 20:57</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Jan 2019 21:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">46 of 200</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.46">42264.46</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42264.37#a42264_45" target="_self">42264.45</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Just have a browse on twitter of what Rachel Riley (of Countdown fame) has been enduring of late and has been highlighting. It exists, it's there, it's not made up and it's not just a few isolated incidents. <br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=anti+semitism+reports+increasing">https://www.google.com/search?q=anti+semitism+reports+increasing</a><br /> <br /> Yes it exists on both (far) sides and the left have had much more media focus (unfairly in comparison), but that doesn't make it correct. <br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42264.46&return_msg=42264.37" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42264.46"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42264.47" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>