The Circle of Death - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.0&return_msg=42036.8"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.11">11–20</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42036.8">The Circle of Death</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42036_8_20_10"> <a name="a42036_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 5 Oct 2017 13:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Rich <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 5 Oct 2017 20:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8">42036.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.6">42036.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">I expect there'd be a lot of police dead after gun-owners defend their 'rightful' property from seizure</div> <p>As a practical matter this can be easily avoided. 1. Outlaw possession of certain types/quantities of guns, ammo and whatnot, with draconian financial and criminal penalties. 2. Provide an 'amnesty period' during which owners can surrender the items in question without penalty, and (perhaps) a small financial reward.<br /><br /> No need to go around breaking down doors, though cops are generally not shy about doing that and, if indicated, showing up at your door with all sorts of military hardware, robots, helicopters, armoured vehicles &such. Good luck winning a shootout, unless martyrdom is your idea of "winning".</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 5 Oct 2017 13:21 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.8&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">23 Oct 2017 23:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">9 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.9">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> One of the reasons that the Vegas situation has not resulted in any new laws is that even the most ardent anti gun activists could not conceive of a law that would have prevented the incident. They even stated this publicly.<br /><br /> Probably you know that I am a big believer in private gun ownership and as stated earlier, arguing about it really never changes anyone's opinion one way or the other.<br /><br /> For me, the most confusing aspect of the situation is that if the guy's real goal was to kill a lot of people, he would have used an entirely different gun type and setup. This is fairly common knowledge among even slightly experienced gun owners and he was not a beginner nor financially limited in his decisions.<br /><br /> Even the average 12 year old who has any gun experience knows this and anyone with even the slightest interest could read it on common internet forums, magazines or books on the subject.<br /><br /> To me there are still many unknowns about what really happened in that hotel room.<br /><br /> Harry</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.9&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">23 Oct 2017 23:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">10 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.10">42036.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think what you are missing in any attempt to repeal one of the "Bill of Rights" items is that these are considered "fundamental to human nature", not "Government approved".<br /><br /> If you take away any of these "fundamental rights", then they all are up for grabs and none matter at all.<br /><br /> I can go down the list of "fundamental rights" in the US constitution and find several items that I am not a big believer in - example - "Rights of the Press" are certainly an area that that is abused.<br /><br /> For better or worse, if one falls, they all fall. If the people's right to own guns is taken away, then I have no interest in helping to protect their particular sensitive / interesting "right" either. Why would I care if they don't care about mine? <br /><br /> Another point that is missing in the gun control discussion is that the best way to reduce gun sales is to not talk about it. When Obama and Hillary were on the anti-gun war path, guns sold rapidly. Now that we have a gun - friendly President and Congress - gun sales have declined sharply.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.10&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 14:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Oct 2017 15:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.11">42036.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_9" target="_self">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "if the guy's real goal was to kill a lot of people, he would have used an entirely different gun type and setup"<br /><br /> Yet somehow, he managed. American ingenuity. <span class="emoticon e_dance" title="(dance)"><span class="e__">(dance)</span></span> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.11&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.11"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 17:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_unread" title="Unread Message"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.12">42036.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_9" target="_self">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> He used a semi-automatic rifle with a bumpstock, pretty effective by the looks of it.<br /> <br /> Why should a normal person be allowed to own a semi-automatic rifle in the first place? There's no sensible reason why. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.12&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 17:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Oct 2017 18:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.13">42036.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_12" target="_self">42036.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Perhaps Harry meant he should have used a belt-fed, tripod mounted HMG, or a grenade launcher?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.13&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Manthorp<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 23:03</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 Oct 2017 10:18"></span></span> <span class="message_count">14 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.14">42036.14</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_12" target="_self">42036.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> That, for me, is the bottom line. Within a gun-owning culture, buy a small arm to 'defend' yourself, by all means. If you're a hunter, buy a rifle that maximises the chances of a quick, clean, kill; cool. But where is any logic in allowing people to buy weapons and accessories that enable mass slaughter? It's just contrary to common sense.<br /><br /> But it's not my gig. If Americans want to facilitate the killing of each other <em>en masse</em>, all I can (or should) do is comment from the sidelines.<br /><br /> Harry, I respect your right to bear arms (though I would never vote for it for my country). I would just urge you to challenge the small print. The devil is always in the detail.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.14&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_15"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_15"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">25 Oct 2017 00:32</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 26 Oct 2017 21:40"></span></span> <span class="message_count">15 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.15">42036.15</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_14" target="_self">42036.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Murdering strangers with firearms is a human right in America, according to Harry.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.15&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.15"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_16"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_16"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: graphitone<span class="message_time">25 Oct 2017 07:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_unread" title="Unread Message"></span></span> <span class="message_count">16 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.16">42036.16</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_9" target="_self">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">For me, the most confusing aspect of the situation is that if the guy's real goal was to kill a lot of people, he would have used an entirely different gun type and setup. This is fairly common knowledge among even slightly experienced gun owners and he was not a beginner nor financially limited in his decisions.</div> <p>We don't have a window into this guy's mind and who knows what he was thinking, but I think it unlikely he'd have had a head count clocking up as he was spraying bullets. Given he was unencumbered by financial burdens, wouldn't the easiest way to execute this atrocity be to buy a missile laden jet and carpet bomb the stadium? Or are jets not covered by the 2nd amendment? From his point of view, at least he would have been able to get away. Perhaps he derived some perverse pleasure from being there first hand. <span class="emoticon e_sad" title=":("><span class="e__">:(</span></span> I wonder how come it's guns that have become embedded in the subconscious as the armament of choice? Presumably, it's the portability and concealment properties that people like, and the bigger firearms have become more prevalent on the back of smaller arms becoming commonplace - essentially it's a penis measuring contest. Now, if penises had been the weapon of choice way back when, imagine the how the world would be today... I suspect Throb may well be the commander of the universe by now.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.16&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.16"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_17"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_17"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">25 Oct 2017 15:06</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: graphitone <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 Oct 2017 16:27"></span></span> <span class="message_count">17 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.17">42036.17</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8#a42036_16" target="_self">42036.16</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "I wonder how come it's guns that have become embedded in the subconscious as the armament of choice"<br /><br /> Throwback to the cowboy myth.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.17&return_msg=42036.8" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.17"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42036.18" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>