The Circle of Death - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.0&return_msg=42036.4"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.11">11–20</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=42036.4">The Circle of Death</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="42036_4_20_10"> <a name="a42036_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 4 Oct 2017 12:13</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Oct 2017 12:18"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4">42036.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.3">42036.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There is that, but it seems the debate usually moves towards "well that's why we need guns, to defend ourselves" </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.4&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.4"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 4 Oct 2017 12:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Oct 2017 12:37"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.5">42036.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_4" target="_self">42036.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yeah I dunno. If someone set out to drive a stake through the 2nd amendment...</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.5&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Rich<span class="message_time"> 5 Oct 2017 06:47</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Manthorp <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 6 Oct 2017 17:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.6">42036.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.1">42036.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I read a pro-2nd Amendment article I am trying to find again, it said you're 3 times more likely to die in a massacre in Norway than the US (0.3 per 100,000 in US vs. 1.38 per 100,000 in Norway). Of course, it's the tens of thousands of non-mass-shootings which makes America so dangerous to be in (unless you believe <a href="http://americangunfacts.com/">this</a>). I find <a href="http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting">this</a> to be a sobering source of gun crime stats.<br /><br /> Breivik really messed up the argument for those who are anti-gun.<br /><br /> I agree that Sandy Hook was the inflection point and the NRA responded by saying it was a liberal hoax to take their guns. So that's that. I kinda wish some of the pictures of the aftermath would leak out to bring home the reality of the atrocity (but then as a parent I really, really don't want to risk seeing that).<br /><br /> I've tried to envisage what it would look like to revoke the 2nd Amendment. How would all those guns out there in the US get taken away? I expect there'd be a lot of police dead after gun-owners defend their 'rightful' property from seizure.<br /><br /> The milder option is to simply bulk up checks on new gun purchases. I really don't see why there is any resistance to this. It feels like you get a gun as the surprise in boxes of breakfast cereal.<br /><br /> With the Vegas shooter having a <a href="https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-shooters-father-diagnosed-185610775.html">family history of psychopathy</a> and crime, there should be no way he got hold of guns, let alone 40+ of them. Which militia was he a member of? <br /><br /> Ugh, it all just seems to unfixable while the NRA lobby is so powerful.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.6&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 5 Oct 2017 09:34</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Rich <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 5 Oct 2017 20:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.7">42036.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_6" target="_self">42036.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooting-youtube-hoax-conspiracy-theories">https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooting-youtube-hoax-conspiracy-theories</a></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.7&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.7"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 5 Oct 2017 13:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Rich <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 5 Oct 2017 20:57"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.8">42036.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_6" target="_self">42036.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">I expect there'd be a lot of police dead after gun-owners defend their 'rightful' property from seizure</div> <p>As a practical matter this can be easily avoided. 1. Outlaw possession of certain types/quantities of guns, ammo and whatnot, with draconian financial and criminal penalties. 2. Provide an 'amnesty period' during which owners can surrender the items in question without penalty, and (perhaps) a small financial reward.<br /><br /> No need to go around breaking down doors, though cops are generally not shy about doing that and, if indicated, showing up at your door with all sorts of military hardware, robots, helicopters, armoured vehicles &such. Good luck winning a shootout, unless martyrdom is your idea of "winning".</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 5 Oct 2017 13:21 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.8&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">23 Oct 2017 23:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">9 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.9">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> One of the reasons that the Vegas situation has not resulted in any new laws is that even the most ardent anti gun activists could not conceive of a law that would have prevented the incident. They even stated this publicly.<br /><br /> Probably you know that I am a big believer in private gun ownership and as stated earlier, arguing about it really never changes anyone's opinion one way or the other.<br /><br /> For me, the most confusing aspect of the situation is that if the guy's real goal was to kill a lot of people, he would have used an entirely different gun type and setup. This is fairly common knowledge among even slightly experienced gun owners and he was not a beginner nor financially limited in his decisions.<br /><br /> Even the average 12 year old who has any gun experience knows this and anyone with even the slightest interest could read it on common internet forums, magazines or books on the subject.<br /><br /> To me there are still many unknowns about what really happened in that hotel room.<br /><br /> Harry</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.9&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">23 Oct 2017 23:58</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">10 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.10">42036.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think what you are missing in any attempt to repeal one of the "Bill of Rights" items is that these are considered "fundamental to human nature", not "Government approved".<br /><br /> If you take away any of these "fundamental rights", then they all are up for grabs and none matter at all.<br /><br /> I can go down the list of "fundamental rights" in the US constitution and find several items that I am not a big believer in - example - "Rights of the Press" are certainly an area that that is abused.<br /><br /> For better or worse, if one falls, they all fall. If the people's right to own guns is taken away, then I have no interest in helping to protect their particular sensitive / interesting "right" either. Why would I care if they don't care about mine? <br /><br /> Another point that is missing in the gun control discussion is that the best way to reduce gun sales is to not talk about it. When Obama and Hillary were on the anti-gun war path, guns sold rapidly. Now that we have a gun - friendly President and Congress - gun sales have declined sharply.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.10&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 14:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Oct 2017 15:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.11">42036.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_9" target="_self">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "if the guy's real goal was to kill a lot of people, he would have used an entirely different gun type and setup"<br /><br /> Yet somehow, he managed. American ingenuity. <span class="emoticon e_dance" title="(dance)"><span class="e__">(dance)</span></span> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.11&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.11"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 17:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_unread" title="Unread Message"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.12">42036.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_9" target="_self">42036.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> He used a semi-automatic rifle with a bumpstock, pretty effective by the looks of it.<br /> <br /> Why should a normal person be allowed to own a semi-automatic rifle in the first place? There's no sensible reason why. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.12&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a42036_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_42036_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">24 Oct 2017 17:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 24 Oct 2017 18:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 20</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.13">42036.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=42036.4#a42036_12" target="_self">42036.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Perhaps Harry meant he should have used a belt-fed, tripod mounted HMG, or a grenade launcher?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=42036.13&return_msg=42036.4" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="42036.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="42036.14" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>