Article: Brexit sell by date - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.0&return_msg=41947.3"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.11">11–20</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">31–34</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41947.3">Article: Brexit sell by date</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41947_3_34_10"> <a name="a41947_3"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_3"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">16 May 2017 06:57</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 May 2017 15:25"></span></span> <span class="message_count">3 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3">41947.3</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">41947.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> What PB said. <br /> <br /> I remember a number of articles not long after the referendum stating the date that a new referendum would give a remain result. Based on everyone voting the same, and new voters following the demographics - ie most new young voters voting remain. Along with some older voters having died. That result was just a few months (or even weeks) after the referendum. Or at least by the end of 2016.<br /> <br /> Chuck in some voter regret and you'd probably get a remain vote now. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.3&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.3"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_4"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_4"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">16 May 2017 15:23</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 May 2017 15:41"></span></span> <span class="message_count">4 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.4">41947.4</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_3" target="_self">41947.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I'm not so sure we would. It'd take one of the big tabloids (basically Mail and/or Sun) to swing it back again now. Most (vocal) Leave supporters seemed to have simply reinforced their opinion since the vote and any attempts to use dirty old facts and logic only make it worse.<br /> Similar phenomenon in the USA right now as Trump voters attempt to justify the heady mix of incompetence and outright evil going on in the White House since he became the president.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.4&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.4"> <span class="rating">+2/2</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">16 May 2017 15:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 May 2017 15:41"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.5">41947.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_3" target="_self">41947.3</a></div> <div class="message_body"> What milko said. The fuckers will just have to die.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.5&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.5"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">16 May 2017 15:42</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 May 2017 20:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">6 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.6">41947.6</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_4" target="_self">41947.4</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You're probably right. Just hopeless optimism on my part <span class="emoticon e_csad" title=":C"><span class="e__">:C</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.6&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">16 May 2017 20:32</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 May 2017 21:54"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.7">41947.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_6" target="_self">41947.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Don't give up - optimism <em>can't</em> be hopeless, by definition. <span class="emoticon e_smile" title=":)"><span class="e__">:)</span></span> <p>I do wonder what it would take for Trump to go though. Wouldn't be surprised if he announced he was joining ISIL and somehow still didn't get impeached...</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.7&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.7"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">18 May 2017 11:14</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 15:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">8 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.8">41947.8</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">41947.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">GAME-CHANGING INNOVATOR (DSMITHHFX)</a></div> <div class="quote"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote"> <p>“A gang of angry old men, irritable even in victory, are shaping the future of the country against the inclinations of its youth. By 2019 [...]: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers; 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”</p> </div> <br /><br /><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/12/15m-oldsters-in-their-graves-could-swing-second-eu-vote-says-ian-mcewan">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/12/15m-oldsters-in-their-graves-could-swing-second-eu-vote-says-ian-mcewan</a></div> <p>Interesting that people in the UK stop voting when they are dead. In Chicago, it is well known that ballots are still cast for people that have been dead for many years. There is no system of "purging" voter names in the US, no matter if people move to another area, die, or are no longer eligible to vote.<br /><br /> It is one of the reasons that we will eventually have to implement a picture ID to vote, no matter the protesting about it. I think it would be a good thing as long as it is relatively easy and inexpensive to have an ID.</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 18 May 2017 11:16 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.8&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 May 2017 11:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 May 2017 05:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">9 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.9">41947.9</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_8" target="_self">41947.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> If it's not free then it's voter suppression. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.9&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">18 May 2017 15:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 15:53"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.10">41947.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_9" target="_self">41947.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The US has a long tradition of that too.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.10&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 May 2017 15:55</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 16:29"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.11">41947.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_10" target="_self">41947.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Exxxxxactly. <br /> <br /> Any attempt to make it even slightly more difficult to vote is voter suppression. Usually has the biggest impact on people in a lower socio-economic position, which is generally the intention. Then throw in a bit of gerrymandering for good measure. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.11&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">19 May 2017 05:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 May 2017 07:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.12">41947.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.3#a41947_11" target="_self">41947.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.11">ANT_THOMAS</a></div> <div class="quote">Exxxxxactly.<br /><br /> Any attempt to make it even slightly more difficult to vote is voter suppression. Usually has the biggest impact on people in a lower socio-economic position, which is generally the intention. Then throw in a bit of gerrymandering for good measure.</div> <p>I can understand your idea. Let's take some actual examples and see where it leads us:<br /><br /> 1) Voter laws<br /> - Perhaps this is understood, but just for clarity, the voting laws are written on a "state by state" basis.<br /> - There is not "one voting law" for the country that applies to everyone equally and it varies considerably across the country<br /> - You can reasonably ask "why", because we do as well, but it is because of the original discussions about "states rights" vs "Federal rights" way back in the 1700s and the framing of the constitution.<br /> - As a result of this, we have various state governments in constant lawsuits with the Federal government (both directions), which is expensive, wasteful, and silly, but still better than the 1800s approach of having a civil war over similar issues. We consider this to be "progress".<br /><br /> 2) Vote Implementation<br /> - The method of determining where polls are placed is county by county (slightly larger than a city). <br /> - The person responsible for running the election in each state is either appointed (by the party running the state) or occasionally by election. This has a huge impact on vote count and has determined who is president in the past.<br /> - The hours and days that polls are open varies state by state<br /> - The paper and electronic methods used to vote vary state by state, and to some extent, county by county<br /> - There is no actual "requirement" that ballots sent in by mail are ever opened and counted. I learned this the hard way during the Gore / Bush election, and that nearly 20 years of faithfully mailing in my ballots - were most likely never opened. I traveled a lot on business, so voting my mail made a lot of sense, at least I imagined it did.<br /><br /> - Ever since the Bush / Gore election, there has been some movement to standardize the ballot method, counting, and push to ensure that mail in votes are counted. <br /> - There has also been movement to open up the "election day" to more days than just election Tuesday, for example, the Sunday and Monday as well.<br /> - While the individual states still make the decision on what is done, there are some systems that are tested at the Federal / National level and considered certified. The Federal government provides funding to states to implement these systems if they choose to, and most of them have chosen one of these certified voting systems.<br /><br /> The states can still choose to do something else, but if / when it gets hacked or causes problems, it would be a political nightmare for that state's political leaders.</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 May 2017 05:59 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.12&return_msg=41947.3" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41947.13" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>