Article: Brexit sell by date - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.0&return_msg=41947.28"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">31–34</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41947.28">Article: Brexit sell by date</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41947_28_34_10"> <a name="a41947_28"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_28"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">21 May 2017 18:19</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 22 May 2017 03:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">28 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.28">41947.28</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.27">41947.27</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Very common in North America too, including Canada, though with Mexicans. Also we have a lot of Phillipinos working as nurses aids, child care etc.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 21 May 2017 18:21 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.28&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.28"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_29"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_29"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 15:06</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 15:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">29 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.29">41947.29</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.24">41947.24</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.24">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">California - Similar to OH, any citizen, or dual citizen, 18 years or older can vote - If you are convicted of a felony (example illegal drug use), you loose your right to vote while in prison - Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life.</div> <br /> But according to the website of the California Secretary of State:<br /> <h1>Voting Rights: Persons with a Criminal History</h1> <p><a href="http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/who-can-vote-california/voting-rights-californians/#print">Print Versions in ten languages</a></p> <h2>Eligibility Requirements</h2> <p>You can register to vote and vote if you are:</p> <ul><li>A United States citizen and a resident of California,</li> <li>18 years old or older on Election Day,</li> <li>Not currently in state or federal prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony, and</li> <li>Not currently found mentally incompetent to vote by a court (for more information, please see <a href="http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/conservatorship/" title="Voting Rights: Persons Subject to Conservatorship">Voting Rights: Persons Subject to Conservatorship</a>).</li> </ul><h3>Persons with a criminal history who <br /> can register to vote:</h3> <ul><li>In county jail: <ul><li>serving a misdemeanor sentence (a misdemeanor never affects your right to vote)</li> <li>Because jail time is a condition of probation (misdemeanor or felony)</li> <li>Serving a felony jail sentence</li> <li>Awaiting trial</li> </ul></li> <li>On probation</li> <li>On mandatory supervision</li> <li>On post-release community supervision</li> <li>On federal supervised release</li> <li>A person with a juvenile wardship adjudication</li> </ul><h3>Persons with a criminal history who <br /> cannot register and vote:</h3> <ul><li>Currently imprisoned in: <ul><li>State prison</li> <li>Federal prison</li> </ul></li> <li>Currently serving a state prison felony sentence in a county jail or other correctional facility<a href="http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/who-can-vote-california/voting-rights-californians/#penalcode">*</a></li> <li>Currently on parole with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation <ul><li>Once you are done with parole your right to vote is restored, but you must re-register online at <a href="http://registertovote.ca.gov/">RegisterToVote.ca.gov</a> or by filling out a paper voter registration card.</li> </ul></li> </ul></div> <br /><br /> Yes, but let's look at the wording and how it is used carefully.<br /> - If you are on parole, then you cannot vote.<br /><br /> Virtually everyone, from a DUI, theft, serious speeding (not a few mph, but certainly 30+ mph over the limit) public drunkenness, to hardened criminal is put on probation. It isn't unusual for ever minor crimes to get 1 - 3 years.<br /><br /> Along with the probation, are the conditions of probation:<br /> - Meet with probation officer on a very specific schedule, which is his schedule not yours - so you have to tell your boss, take time off of work, etc. In a workaholic society like we have, who wants to have workers that have to leave to go to meet with the parole officer?<br /> - Many judges have started adding on "no alcoholic beverages while on probation". That means you might have a speeding ticket and can't have a beer (or vote) for a year.<br /> - You might not be able to leave the county, and certainly the state, without written permission. If you live near a state border (even here, that is just 4 hours drive), that can be a problem, especially if you are young.<br /><br /> It isn't unusual for someone to "slip" and have some wine with Christmas dinner. They then put the person on the stand, ask them under oath if they have kept the conditions of their probation. They also ask their friends, under oath. If you lie, good chance to get caught lying under oath. If you admit that you had a glass of wine - probation period is extended.<br /><br /> You can argue that being in jail for a misdemeanor doesn't affect your right to vote, but just try and pull it off. You can hardly get regularly needed medications while in jail, much less vote.<br /><br /> If you have a criminal history, then usually you cannot get subsidies to attend college and cannot live in college housing. That makes it very hard to raise the education level.<br /><br /> It is a viscous circle that few lower income people can escape from, and that is in a state that claims to have a safety net and encourage voting.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 15:15 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.29&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.29"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_30"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_30"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 15:24</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 15:59"></span></span> <span class="message_count">30 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.30">41947.30</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.28#a41947_29" target="_self">41947.29</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote"> <h3>Persons with a criminal history who <br /> can register to vote:</h3> <ul><li>On probation</li> </ul></div> <p> </p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.30&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.30"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_31"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_31"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: william (WILLIAMA)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 15:27</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">31 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Nor sure what the situation is in the US but generally probation and parole are different things altogether.<br /><br /> Parole is a provision that the offender is allowed to complete the term of a sentence of imprisonment without being confined in recognition of their promise not to reoffend and subject to a return to prison at the discretion of the judiciary.<br /><br /> Probation is a sentence whereby the offender is placed under the authority of the court (the court has probate) for a set period of time. Probation usually replaces imprisonment although there may be imprisonment if the terms of probation are not met.<br /><br /> Since a person on parole is technically serving a period of imprisonment, and an offender is debarred from voting when imprisoned, it follows that the right to vote is removed during parole. I see no evidence at all that probation involves loss of voting rights. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 15:30 by WILLIAMA</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.31&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.31"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_32"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_32"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">32 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.32">41947.32</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.28#a41947_31" target="_self">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">Nor sure what the situation is in the US but generally probation and parole are different things altogether.<br /><br /> Parole is a provision that the offender is allowed to complete the term of a sentence of imprisonment without being confined in recognition of their promise not to reoffend and subject to a return to prison at the discretion of the judiciary.<br /><br /> Probation is a sentence whereby the offender is placed under the authority of the court (the court has probate) for a set period of time. Probation usually replaces imprisonment although there may be imprisonment if the terms of probation are not met.<br /><br /> Since a person on parole is technically serving a period of imprisonment, and an offender is debarred from voting when imprisoned, it follows that the right to vote is removed during parole. I see no evidence at all that probation involves loss of voting rights. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>I will go back and look at this some more, because you point out some important distinctions.<br /><br /> Keep in mind that it isn't unusual for CA prisons to release prisoners early and put them on both parole and probation, so they still cannot vote.<br /><br /> If the terms of probation are not met (which can be very simple violations, like having a beer) then you are once again blocked.<br /><br /> Interestingly, voting is not a constitutional "right" AFAIK, but there are fundamental rights that are taken away permanently. Personally, I don't think that someone who has committed a felony should be blocked from receiving a scholarship to attend college for instance, nor have their "fundamental rights" taken away permanently.</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.32&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.32"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_33"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_33"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">33 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.33">41947.33</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.28#a41947_31" target="_self">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">Nor sure what the situation is in the US but generally probation and parole are different things altogether.<br /><br /> Parole is a provision that the offender is allowed to complete the term of a sentence of imprisonment without being confined in recognition of their promise not to reoffend and subject to a return to prison at the discretion of the judiciary.<br /><br /> Probation is a sentence whereby the offender is placed under the authority of the court (the court has probate) for a set period of time. Probation usually replaces imprisonment although there may be imprisonment if the terms of probation are not met.<br /><br /> Since a person on parole is technically serving a period of imprisonment, and an offender is debarred from voting when imprisoned, it follows that the right to vote is removed during parole. I see no evidence at all that probation involves loss of voting rights. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>But what purpose is served by taking away the right to vote? If a lot of people are doing something that is considered "criminal", then perhaps the laws need to be changed. <br /><br /> Drinking beer when you are 20 years old is a serious crime, but should it be? I once asked a friend in Italy what the drinking age was there, and after thinking about it, she didn't think there was one. She distinctly remembered going to the local grocery store as a small child and bringing home wine and bread - all by herself.<br /><br /> If a lot of people are turned into criminals by ridiculous laws, then they will not be able to vote in a way that changes these laws.</p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 16:13 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.33&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.33"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41947_34"></a><div class="message" id="message_41947_34"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">25 May 2017 16:20</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: william (WILLIAMA) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 25 May 2017 19:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">34 of 34</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.34">41947.34</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.28#a41947_31" target="_self">41947.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41947.31">william (WILLIAMA)</a></div> <div class="quote">s. I certainly see no evidence to support your assertion that in California: 'Once you are released from prison, you are considered a "Felon" for life, and never allowed to vote again = for your entire life'</div> <p>- Companies will not hire you because their business insurance bars them from hiring people with a criminal record.<br /><br /> - If you try to start your own business so that you can have a job, it is nearly impossible to get a contractor license and business licenses are harder to obtain.<br /><br /> - If you do manage to get a contractor license, it is hard to get the required insurance.<br /><br /> - No public funding to further your education<br /><br /> - Housing is much more difficult to obtain<br /><br /> - You are barred from ever owning a gun (I know you don't care, but that is an important right in the US)<br /><br /> - If you move into an area, people will look up your name on the internet, see that you have a criminal record, and won't let their children play with your children.<br /><br /> - It is just a hair trigger of a parole or probation violation to get put back in jail, so essentially you have no voting rights.<br /><br /> I know people who have gone through this and it is a big challenge.<br /><br /> IMHO, this is essentially being treated as a felon for life.<br /><br /><br /> </p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 May 2017 16:22 by HARRYN</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41947.34&return_msg=41947.28" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41947.34"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </body>