French Election - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.0&return_msg=41943.5"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.21">21–24</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41943.5">French Election</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41943_5_24_10"> <a name="a41943_5"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_5"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 6 May 2017 18:55</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 08:08"></span></span> <span class="message_count">5 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5">41943.5</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.1">41943.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> All you need to know:<br /><br /> Macron - neoliberal<br /><br /> Le Pen - neofascist</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.5&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.5"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_6"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_6"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 08:23</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">6 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.6">41943.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> As everyone knows, we had a pretty tough election in November and the country is still healing from the divisiveness and name calling (from all sides). Many Americans, including myself, are trying very hard to avoid giving people harsh labels in an attempt to soften the tone of the discussions and get the country working again.<br /><br /> That is specifically why I was asking about issues and avoiding labels. I also try hard to not pin people to the political or religious opinions of their parents and families. Certainly it can follow that they think similarly, but I can tell you that my children and I don't share identical viewpoints on many things. I view that as an accomplishment - they are independent thinkers.<br /><br /> Le Pen is certainly given a hard time in the press. It is hard to tell how much of that is real vs rival generated, at least from here. She is certainly a Nationalist which is somewhat what a person wants in their leaders, not sure about how far that goes beyond reasonable.<br /><br /> As far as Macron, all I can tell you is that in the financial press on this side of the ocean, the French Banks have been bragging for some time how they planned out the strategy to get Macron elected. He is being presented here as something like a French Mario Draghi. <br /><br /> As you know, Drahgi was a former Goldman Sacks guy and "slightly biased" toward bankers needs. That is either good or bad, depending on your viewpoint. I don't necessarily subscribe that being "pro bank" is the same as "pro business".<br /><br /> I find it fascinating that the same strategy of "a third way" somehow seems to work on people. In recent memory, both Obama and Trump used the same strategies to win.<br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.6&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.6"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_7"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_7"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 08:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 21:25"></span></span> <span class="message_count">7 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.7">41943.7</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5#a41943_6" target="_self">41943.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Fair enough, but I'm tired of "fair-mindedness" being used as a vehicle for the normalisation of people like Le Pen and Trump. What it's bringing to the world is clear enough to me and I'd rather call it by its name, label and all. I hope your tone-softening efforts work out, still, but I fear they lead down a dark path. <br /> <br /> I guess the third way thing is what I was alluding to earlier, the status quo is only good for an ever-decreasing amount of people lately. I just find it completely depressing that people could see Trump (currently filling his staff with the sort of people he was pledging to drain the swamp of, quelle surprise, ensuring a few tens of thousands of people will die for lack of healthcare, etc etc etc) or Le Pen as a good way to change that. And those people will say things like "Macron is just another banker!" And it's true so that's not great either but somehow France got themselves an either/or situation like this instead of a choice including positive change. Just like the USA, just like the UK. I think it's already past the point of no return for decades yet. <br /> <br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.7&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.7"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_8"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_8"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 13:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">8 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.8">41943.8</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Here's a point in Macron's favour:<br /><br /> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/04/macron-greece-french-left-marine-le-pen-yanis-varoufakis">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/04/macron-greece-french-left-marine-le-pen-yanis-varoufakis</a><br /><br /> "When my country was being bullied by Europe’s pro-austerity establishment, Macron was a rare ally."</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.8&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.8"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_9"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_9"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 18:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">9 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.9">41943.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Macron appears to have a sizeable lead in early returns...<br /><br /> And now has been declared the winner. Very low turnout (~25%).<br /><br /> And Le Pen just threw the FN under the bus...<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 7 May 2017 18:25 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.9&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.9"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_10"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_10"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 18:30</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 18:31"></span></span> <span class="message_count">10 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.10">41943.10</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5#a41943_9" target="_self">41943.9</a></div> <div class="message_body"> A year or two ago, I'd be a bit disappointed at another neoliberal win I think, presumably hoping for somebody along Melanchon's lines (disclaimer, haven't really followed the French politics closely enough to be sure) but now it just feels like a massive relief. Which I guess is that there Overton window sliding rightwards, but nevermind for now. Fuck off, Le Pen and FN! </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.10&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.10"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_11"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_11"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 18:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 19:32"></span></span> <span class="message_count">11 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.11">41943.11</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5#a41943_10" target="_self">41943.10</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's hard to get excited by the likes of Clinton and Macron, but this felt like it could have been a global tipping point (disintegration of the EU). Very relieved that at least did not come to pass. For now. Not out of the woods yet.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.11&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.11"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 19:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 20:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12">41943.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5#a41943_11" target="_self">41943.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "Hooray, only 35% Nazis in France!"</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.12&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 20:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 22:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.13">41943.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.5#a41943_12" target="_self">41943.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <span class="emoticon e_shock" title=":-O"><span class="e__">:-O</span></span> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.13&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 21:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">14 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.14">41943.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> From across the ocean, it doesn't actually appear to matter all that much who is elected in France. Our news indicates that all real decisions are made in Brussels by non elected representatives. The individual national governments appear to be just rubber stamps, pretending to matter by arguing before voting yes.<br /><br /> Similar to the US, probably 3 or 4 layers of government could be eliminated with no loss of effectiveness.<br /><br /> I am not singling out France, great country, it's just that when I look at it all:<br /> - Democracy<br /> - Republic<br /> - Oligarchy<br /><br /> We all seem to be somewhere between Republic and Oligarchy, rather than in between Democracy and Republic like our "representatives" try to pretend.<br /><br /> Le Pen is more or less correct on a point she made, no matter who was elected, France would be run by a woman. She was thinking A. Merkel, but really it seems to be C. Legarde.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.14&return_msg=41943.5" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41943.15" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>